Released Q2 Update and DLC Released

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, May 9, 2022.

  1. Devin

    Devin Member

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    Instead of accusing people of lying, I suggest you actually look into the matter or, well, ask someone.
    The sound engine is in fact backwards compatible, but it is different. All the previously documented API is fully functional, except some elements were ignored in the old engine. The new engine can't ignore them by design. By that I mean, now the actual position of sounds being played back matters. A lot. If a modder made a car that placed the engine inside the driver's head, previously they would've gotten away with it because the old engine simply didn't work correctly in that situation. It had no idea what a position was. Attenuation was basically linear, which is completely wrong. The new one does all of this correctly - so the content suddenly doesn't sound exactly the same anymore. Additionally, it also mixes every effect spatially, rather than just playing it on the front left and front right speakers as the old engine did, which was the whole reason we made a new one in the first place.

    There is no way to make this specific edge case work. It's a lack of information. The content has to be updated in that case. However, it's actually quite uncommon for it to break completely. So far, no example was found in the wild. More commonly the mixes were simply made for an incorrect attenuation curve, using completely arbitrary settings in the sound settings menu. Now that it is corrected, automatically adjusting the mixes is not possible because the information which settings they were mixed for is simply lacking. Hence the legacy sliders exist.

    Previously, those sliders didn't matter much. All sounds were mixed to clipping range (literally) and became one large compressed mess of loudness. This is no longer the case, so you hear subtle differences. This is by design, but shows issues with previous mixes more than the old engine did. Which is the whole point. If you wish to get the old sound back, feel free to just put a filter over the game's output that amplifies the sound to the point of clipping. You'll get a pretty similar experience then.

    Either way, use the legacy sliders until mods get updated. We've added those purely because we knew especially 3rd party cars would not follow general guidelines and thus sound more different from what they used to sound like than our own content, and we wanted to make sure players can adjust it a little.

    We've gone huge steps to make sure all existing content sounds as you would expect. That doesn't mean it sounds the same as before. If it did, why would we even develop a new engine in the first place? But it does mean that we did extensive work implementing features such as cockpit raytracing just to make sure all effects suit their cars well. If you don't like how it sounds, there will always be a build with the old sound engine on steam and no one's stopping you from just using that. Going forward, all new content will use the new system, documentation will be released etc. This new content obviously requires the new engine, but it's also mixed specifically for that, so there won't be any issues.

    That said lots of people enjoy the new sound engine. Everyone has different opinions, and no big release can please everyone.

    For example, legacy content's externals used to be much louder to the point where you could barely hear your own car when several other cars were around you. So we toned it down. Which means you only hear them when they're up close, which is more correct but ultimately limited by how the content had to be built.
    Still better than the old engine which straight up had no idea where to place these sounds so it just played them ontop of your own, coming from the front speakers specifically, not attenuated correctly.

    Also, for the record, we could've just gone and ignored any old content. Would've saved us like 6 months of work too. But seemingly many players enjoy using that with the new engine. So I'm happy we invested the time and money to make that happen.

    tl;dr:
    You can just use an old build for old mods. That's why they're still around. New mods, that require new builds, will be updated appropriately anyway. Old mods generally should work fine but may need small tweaks to ingame settings unless they were built completely wrong and relied on issues with the old engine in order to not sound "wrong".

    Oh, and by the way, the only reason I'm actually here is because I've received complaints about a user being toxic in this thread. I couldn't find anyone else accusing people of lying in here, so presumably those complaints referred to you. I hope all your questions have been aswered by this "lying developer", and now that there's nothing to complain about anymore, please calm down a little. It's not doing yourself or anyone else any favours, and won't change anything for the better either.
     
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  2. Havner

    Havner Registered

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    I did ask. One the first page. Just nobody bothered to answer.

    Anyway, thanks for the explanation. Yes, it answers all my questions.

    I did not accuse anyone of lying, just asked what is the truth here. If you actually had some community managers that should be on top of such things there would be no issue. But the lack of communication doesn't really help.

    It's actually pretty sad that you need to approach "toxic levels" to get some answers here. For things that should've been described up front in the first place for such a drastic changes.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
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  3. BorisK66

    BorisK66 Registered

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    This would be a great solution for an open source game. But rF2 is a commercial product with not cheap content, and there are problems not only with mods, but also with its own content, which is sold for good money (Reiza Pack). Developers would do well to think about compatibility.
     
  4. Ayrton de Lima

    Ayrton de Lima Registered

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    The btcc engines like the M4 Class 1 do not raise the engine temperature.
     
  5. Simonk

    Simonk Registered

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    I've got some significant FPS performance issues now and with all the changes and new tracks, I'm finding it difficult to narrow down what the problem is and if it's something that others are experiencing and will be worked on for future updates.
    Sound effects at 256 is unplayable. I can only run it at 32. While adjusting it down from 256 to 32, the game crashes so obviously there's an issue here but I still get micro stutters on 32 and wonder if the new sound engine is still to blame?
    Played with special fx and ultra or off makes no difference (or very little).
    On 32 sound effects I have no stutters on Zandvoort and Monza, lots on Brands Hatch and Laguna Seca, none on Donnington (exact same settings for each track) Feeling like there's a combination of issues here with whatever the underlying problem is has caused issues on less optimized tracks? Is anyone else finding Brands and Laguna a bit resource heavy? My other thought is perhaps it's related to the dust as these two tracks have a lot of dust kicked up by the AI. How is dust handled? does it get added to the GPU memory each time a bit of dust is kicked up and then just stays in memory until you leave the track?

    My GPU is RTX 2060S running triple 1080 screens and an i7 7700 CPU. Internal sound card with 3.5mm plug in speakers or I use USB wireless headphones (no performance difference between sound methods). What I really want to know is, are there issues with any of the changes that have been made that I should just sit out and wait to be rectified, or is this the new performance level of the game? I have seen the issue regarding sparks noted but I don't know that it's part of my problems or not.
     
  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Special effects on low will currently disable sparks, which might help you work that out.

    Other than that I'd recommend a new thread to go through your issue in detail.
     
    Lars likes this.
  7. FERNANDO CABRERA

    FERNANDO CABRERA Registered

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    We try to run tonight in our league but we had multiple issues, first all the cars disappears during the formation lap and end up with cars clipping each other, then after a server restart the server simply crashed
     
  8. FERNANDO CABRERA

    FERNANDO CABRERA Registered

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    so I decide to enjoy some competition and then this happends...

    upload_2022-5-10_21-3-18.png

    I think something broke....
     
  9. sniper

    sniper Registered

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    Thanks for the information
    Posting this in the release notes would have probably saved a tonne on angst for people and a clearer picture.
    Still cannot understand why it was released when only 4 of the paid content cars had been updated. All paid content should have been completed before these changes where implemented IMHO.
     
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  10. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    lower track details.
     
  11. Lars

    Lars Registered

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    Had the same issues yesterday with disappearing cars and figured out that the new build set network connections to 126kps dl/upload to default (on client, server had correct settings adjusted)...raised it to appr. 3 and 6 MB under SETTINGS - NETWORK and everything was fine again!
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  12. JParra

    JParra Registered

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    Last night I was testing the different cars that we use in our competitions and I have to say that in all cases the sound works without problems, even in a "multi-brand" mod that we have prepared with cars from other mods. Except for the Tatuus, currently all are third party Mods.
    In some cases it suits them better than in others, but in general they have improved for the better.
    I really like the feel of sounds in VR because you can position them and they stay in place when you turn your head. If the engine is in front or behind it is always there even if you look to the sides. If you block a tire, you know exactly which one it is by the location of the sound and you can even sense the sound of the tire changing, from front-left to behind-left in a complete spin.
    I also really like being able to save graphics profiles and others, it helps a lot in VR where each car and circuit is a different world.
    Personally, I don't like the colorful labels by car brands in the time list, it seems to me that it loses "professionalism" but that is a matter of taste.
    The worst thing is having lost easy access to replays, which I hope can go back to the old system of accessing everyone at a glance and above all the irregular loss of performance, especially in VR, because we were already very fair in rF2 as to go giving away milliseconds (FPS).
    Great job guys, with a little polishing, it will be perfect. We take care of being patient.
     
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  13. Hinyaldee

    Hinyaldee Registered

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    I concur, the new sound engine is great and was great when it was working for me. But after a later update it doesn't work anymore
     
  14. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    I noticed a Performance loss of 25 percent with the new build but only with 128 effects. I compared Silverstone with Brands Hatch, the old Callaway with the new BTCC and there where no differences content related but after switching to the New build and back i have to say the performance of the New build is poor and i have to check how much loss i will notice with full setting of 256 in the Sound setup.
     
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  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    What are your system specs? CPU / M/B mainly (or discrete sound card, but I'm guessing not)
     
  16. Devin

    Devin Member

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    So far I keep seeing reports of issues specifically stating 7700(k) CPUs. Quite odd, really. Conveniently I have one of those here. The problem with that CPU is it simply runs out of cores right now, leaving next to no room for anything that might eat performance.
    In case you notice an actual impact from sound, try using the Speaker setting (which has a much cheaper to run mixer) and make sure your system's sample rate is not set to unreasonably high numbers. 48000 is more than enough, and human hearing can't hear more than that. Especially since the way we record our samples, mixing at anything higher than that would still leave higher frequencies inaudible anyway. In fact most games do it that way, which I guess proves the point that there's no audible difference to begin with.

    On that note, unless you run out of cores (or have noticeable stutters in audio), there should be no FPS difference between 32 and 256. All of this extra work is dealt with by a separate thread
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I can certainly confirm that running headphones with HRTF and a 192000 Hz sample rate kills my i5-8600 in rF2. Of course, there's no good reason to do that, and I had no good reason to, and I forgot to change it back to normal.

    Makes me wonder if anyone finds those settings and says "Oooooh! Bigger numbers!" though... (yep, rhetorical question!)
     
  18. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    I have I9-9900K
    Can you explain your self better؟ not a big pc expert here. What should I do?
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Chances are you've never changed it.

    Start -> Settings -> System -> Sound -> Device properties -> Additional device properties. Advanced tab.

    Something like 24 bit, 48000 is normal. There's a Restore Defaults button if you aren't sure.


    (I'm assuming you have your normal output device selected under "Choose your output device" in the Sound menu, but it should be when you go in there)
     
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  20. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    hello,
    can someone from dev team explain what are the tyre refinements for fpro ? i would love to learn bit more about it.
     
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