[REL] Porsche 911S

mantasisg

mantasisg

Registered
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Hey ! Version 0.72 is released.
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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3361040539

Picture is from Thruxton. I find it an absolute blast to drive in 40-100% wetness. Also loved Croft at 15% wetness. For wet Ilike to use faster steering rack, as more correction are required, and it gives more steering feel.

Besides steering rack options. Pay attention that there are two engine options. 220hp engine is more zippy, and also makes car less stable, it is race engine, while 178hp is civil engine.
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I am building this model from scratch. I will be implementing it to rF2. I have already made physics for it. Physics work started years ago, when I joined Woochoo to do physics for 1967 Endurance Pack, and Porsche 911s raced in 1967.

There already exists 911 2.0L cup mod. But despite that I have decided to go for my own version anyway. I am offering more in depth physics, that were in works for about four years. Worth to mention, these four years also shared with physics work on other ~70 cars. Each car gave some lesson. Every car was more or less challenging. The 911 definitely was one of the mos challenging. It wasn't long ago that I discovered that it drives a lot better with higher pressures, reduced grip is well compensated by increased stability, while it might be true for all cars, for this one it makes major difference especially at the rear end. I always had a hunch that it might be the case, because it always was becoming way nicer after first few laps of cooking tires (thus increasing their pressures too).

Working on this car and collecting data and references. I have learned that the mythical rear engine "massive" lump of metal is not the scary part about this car at all, although it is one of key features contributing to the character of the car. But many mid engined cars has similar mass distribution, and inertias that aren't that crazy different. The main factors for old 911 design handling are aerodynamics, it developed surprising amount of lift. Next are skinny tires and short wheelbase. On top of that strong engine braking contributes to it's tendency to float into yaw motion when decelerating into fast turns, which is so beautiful to watch how capable drivers use that as four wheels drifting cornering technique - learning to set the yaw rotation just right before entry of a turn and then floring throttle to keep rear end gliding is such a delightful experience, and it is fast.

Besides being oversteer monster, this car is also an understeer monster. These are not my words, but Vic Elford said that. It is true, if you find the car overheating rear tires too much from all those oversteer and neutral steer slides, then you can just simply start inducing understeer for it to avoid oversteer and this car loves adn feels nice to understeer too. Truly fantastic balance and so unique. For those who don't know, Vic Elford basically persuaded Porsche to get 911 involved into motorsports early on.

I am planning to release an early 0.3 version with "civil" engine at first, delivering ~170hp, also easier on engine braking than race engines. And with each update I am going to add upgrades: 911s 2.0L race engine, and then later also 2.2L race engine together with wider wheels.

Model is around 60% done. Physics must be over 80% done by now. I think whole car will be over 70% done for first release. But don't get confused if it is version 0.3 by then, last 10% takes 90% of work.

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Few more wip model renders:
https://imgur.com/a/rnvjXPN
 
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Reserved for technical facts about car and its handling.

Interesting article about 911 test by car and driver in 1974, that included aerodynamic tests with vs without spoiler:
https://www.caranddriver.com/review...-targa-911s-carrera-archived-comparison-test/

Vic Elford about speaks Porsche 911:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb416XlcojU

Handling with 220hp that I was aiming for:

Different later year model, wider rear, longer WB, not powerful, better aero, wider tires, but still good reference:
 
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I planned to get model in game for first time today. Instead I began procrastinating and instead I have added some more details, including rimblur, which I hope isn't going to be pain to implement in game. I am not looking forward to doing driver, gauges and lights, but after that it will probably be all easy. At the moment I am not planning to do rain windshields, I prefer good looking windshields at at all other times with slight dust, scratches and interior panel reflection, IDk if all those can be working well with rain texturing, besides that I probably wouldn't do wipers animation. Well I still have four hours of this day, so maybe still can can it in game in most basic level.

I am getting close to the stage of modeling where all the noticeable things are complete or near complete, and there is left tons of detailing and polishing work that isn't very noticeable at all, I wonder if to do it or not.

Please, enjoy these simple preview renders
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Model right now is just under 80polys/tris. No subdivisions are made, as well as no proper pass of reducing unnecessary geometry.
 
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I just gave that car a go, wow. The feeling is spectacular, I love how the car looses it if braking too much at high speed. Thanks for your work.
 
atomed said:
Sorry, I had the 73 RSR in mind.
Click to expand...

Thanks. 911s will have similarities. After all, I have made physics of this car at first, and from there moved to do 2.8 RSR physics, so perhaps it fits to group them up. They are similar, although very different at the same time.

I am aware that eventually people will be mixing up my releases with existing 2.8RSR or 911S2.0cup mods. The existing 911s 2.0L cup mod might also be satisfying for a lot of people, and that is fine. People also were posting about how good 2.8RSR mod drove as originally released, even though it was almost totally a Howston G4 (Lola T70) physics. I could go on about many other mods of similar case. First of all, I think it is nice that simracers gets pleased with any physics as long as they are drivable and not broken . But this is rF2, why not to actually try and extract what it trully offers ?

Sure there is a problem of going deep into physics and messing things up in such way that even though physics becomes way more accurate, cars sometimes becomes way worse to drive. Sometimes it is because car of interest does actually drive worse than source physics car. But more often it is because after major physics alterations series of polishing tweaks has to be made to get car to drive in satisfying way, and it takes a lot of understanding to move right parameters in the right way. But the reward at the end is genuine car handling in best car dynamics simulator that is available. I wish it was persuaded more for the classic race cars, and 90s road cars.

rF2 keeps getting regularly mentioned for its great FFB. But in my opinion, this is reducing rF2, because good FFB is just tip of the iceberg. What people don't know is how beautifully orchestrated and detailed the physics are.

Anyway. I am battling with getting car functioning into game. It is always frustrating at first, especially when som of the things I have personally never done, or things sometimes just don't work initially and it is hard to tell why. At least I am getting better, and better with 3dsimed.

And there are few renders, I just can't help myself, can't stop experimenting with them:
https://imgur.com/a/NnZk5zZ

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"rF2 keeps getting regularly mentioned for its great FFB. But in my opinion, this is reducing rF2, because good FFB is just tip of the iceberg. What people don't know is how beautifully orchestrated and detailed the physics are."

rFactor2 is not deprived of flaws, but this is still absolutely true.

However, I would contribute with the following: the FFB in rF2 is amazing because it conveys with fidelity 'the world', those "...beautifully orchestrated and detailed ...physics".

As a real world example of how accurate is rF2's emulation of reality:

- I am not, by any definition, a good driver in the true sense of the word, ie. I am, when I am paying attention to what I am doing, a competent daily driver with a tiny bit of extra knowledge on top.
- Just a few days ago, with the first rains of the year, roads were / have been terribly slippery and I drive a crap daily driver (Mazda CX-3 FW) with electric steering, which, nonetheless, actually feels very much like... simracing, when FFB is good (ie. it conveys a lot of information).
- Entering, twice already, a wet and greasy free-way exit, too fast for the conditions (not fast, fast, but fast enough for a CX-3 to wobble beyond comfort), I calmly applied a combo of carefully orchestrated throttle and steering inputs that... came out of rF2 and made it a breeze to carry on. I did not even break a sweat, not got a single adrenaline tingle on my back neck.

This ties together with the fact that rF2 in VR is such a fantastic illusion that you can really lose the perception that you are not actually driving: for more than once I raised my right hand off the wheel to adjust the rearview mirror and... the tracks were not even great, so it was not out of visual cues alone, it was the 'package of sensations' that took me out of this world and into 'that'.

And I know that I am most of the time a rabid contributor, but the reality is that I have never been remotely close of that sensation on other sims (note, I drove less than 30min of LMU, but it felt great).
 
I had similar experiences IRL, I remember after years of playing RBR, LFS and rF1. I felt rather natural immediately when I attempted to do some fun stuff with my first car. First car was FWD Fiat Palio, what a car :D. Second car was Opel Omega, this time RWD, suspension was a little like in 911 lol, I bought it very late winter evening, drove home around midnight, it was very icy and snowing. I was approaching fast kink, but I was doing 70-90km/h only, because I already felt my rear end floating all the time, I decided to give tiny dab on throttle just to get little sense of oversteer. Oversteer happened and I cought it, definitely with a help of simracing as it was literally first hour in my life driving RWD car. However, what simulations did not prepare me for was for how much and how quickly the rear end will step out, with a slightest dab of throttle I have found myself at 20deg yaw angle at least, maybe even over 30degs and it happened so fast, I had zero anticipation for that. Surely every sim nowadays can give a notion what it feels to drive a car in general and how it needs to be handled over the limit, which should definitely help with evasive actions IRL. But there is little of such simulations that might teach simracers to anticipate for more subtle ways how things might turn out to happen IRL, I think sometimes might even give false confidence, when IRL timing of certain car dinamics will be way different requiring different levels of alertness, and reactions, and sometimes impossible to react without anticipation.

I also must say that all these subtle bits of physics combines into subtle specifications how car handling is perceived, of which steering forces are no doubt an important part, but it is just part of cycle and isn't whole thing, great rF2 FFB is a very desirable symptom of amazing physics. rF2 steering with properly simulated cars feels incredibly close to RL, in my experience, I wish I had DD wheel, probably it gets even better.

*****

Anyway. Progress update. I was slowly putting car together into devmode. I didn't expect so much trouble. At first I meade a mistake in gen file, which resulted in few hours of messing. Had slight confusion about getting the driver close enough, got it somewhere there. Had major confusion about assigning rims blur effect, but also got it, it was very painful. First I couldn't get it working because wrong material names, later had a battle with alpha blending params, seems like one-zero alpha chroma is best, although it is definitely not ideal. Now just need to adjust UV map a little. I wonder if it will be possible to have painted rims via liveries. I also had a vision to add fuch rims later haha, but IDK about that anymore.

Still lots of way to go, besides general modeling, mapping, texturing and materials work. Must get gauges, lights, mirrors well. Resize tires a little via physics. And the basic stage of this mod will be done.

Model ingame progress:
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In this screenshot you can see first stage rims blur effect at front and second stage effect at the rear. Second stage effect looks good IMO, but on the first stage effect alpha chroma is showing its drawbacks. TGM tires are slightly too large diameter. I am going to change driver helmet to 60s.


A render as usual, just because looks good:
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I was shamed yesterday here for promoting myself, let me know if you think if that dude was correct. I personaly think that there are some people around who were actively sabotaging rF2 for years. Anyway, if this is not needed, and I am doing this for ten people, then simracing is dead. But hey if there are still 10 people around who appreciates and understands, then the hope is still alive. Are there 10 such people ?

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https://imgur.com/a/FnN0X3m

I was sick past three days, and was "resting" a lot. Turns out you really can get something done with 3DSimED. I feel like I could get a lot more cars done up to such level. For basic implementation to be done, I still need to deal with gauges.

I still have one big issue regarding players tgm tires being incorrect size, I have no idea what causes that. Although car drives well.
 
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