Porsche 911 RSR 2.8L

The BES 1.0 911 GT3 drives and handle very much like a real life Porsche 911.
Its IMO the best 911 GT3 in RF2 and Ive tested them all fairly thorughly including carstat2 and Motec Data.
 
That "Forza rip" was actually enjoyable out of all their* cars, everything leans on the very soft and not pointy but it sort of worked with that one. About BES, I'm yet to try the "latest and greatest" but have been very underwhelmed. Maybe 1.57 or whatever it may be is different, I must find it to give it yet another chance.
 
rF2 has had a payware Ruf for a long time.

Had? No longer available I suppose. Any ideas where I could get a copy?
 
Since that thing was originally stolen from a game and sold for profit, I'd have no issue seeing if I have it somewhere and PMing you. Unless someone else has a link readily available.
 
hak said:
rF2 has had a payware Ruf for a long time.

Had? No longer available I suppose. Any ideas where I could get a copy?
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You don't want to buy this !!! It's a 1/1 copy of the Forza Ruf yellow bird. Absolutely no creativity from the converter involved.
Even the livery is a 1/1 copy.

They have a free BMW Z4 road car. It's also a 1/1 Forza rip and 1/1 physics from the ISI Panoz.
I was absolutely shocked. I immediately removed this car from my PC.
Later i discovered al his "works" are just 1/1 rips.

The worst thing of them all !!! He is asking money for it !!!
 
davidporeilly said:
The BES 1.0 911 GT3 drives and handle very much like a real life Porsche 911.
Its IMO the best 911 GT3 in RF2 and Ive tested them all fairly thorughly including carstat2 and Motec Data.
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First of all just let me clarify I'm just asking (we all know in a forum sometimes we can be misunderstood)

I have driven a Carrera 3.2 and a 997 Carrera S, and I wouldn't say the BES 997 has anything to do with what I drove, but of course I have not driven them to the limit.

Then, my question is, does a real racing 911 have such extreme reactions as the BES 911 has? Because I wouldn't say a road going 911 does.

Daytona 675 said:
Petra is on version 1.59 with the 997, have not tried?
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Mate, I am from Asturias too.
 
LeStrat said:
First of all just let me clarify I'm just asking (we all know in a forum sometimes we can be misunderstood)

I have driven a Carrera 3.2 and a 997 Carrera S, and I wouldn't say the BES 997 has anything to do with what I drove, but of course I have not driven them to the limit.

Then, my question is, does a real racing 911 have such extreme reactions as the BES 911 has? Because I wouldn't say a road going 911 does.


Mate, I am from Asturias too.
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Drive it in game as you drove in real life. I think the discrepancies from the mod to real life only "exponentiated" going from the rFactor conversions and original grouping of cars to its rF2 iteration.
 
LeStrat said:
First of all just let me clarify I'm just asking (we all know in a forum sometimes we can be misunderstood)

I have driven a Carrera 3.2 and a 997 Carrera S, and I wouldn't say the BES 997 has anything to do with what I drove, but of course I have not driven them to the limit.

Then, my question is, does a real racing 911 have such extreme reactions as the BES 911 has? Because I wouldn't say a road going 911 does.



Mate, I am from Asturias too.
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Hi
I mean that its the most like the real life one thats available in RF2.
Ihave driven the 911, owned one (1981 SC) sold them for 6.5 years including the 911 GT3 and I have raced them as well as other front and mid engined cars cars in club sprint events
When set up correctly (very important) it behaves well.
To prove it I will post a video at the bottom of a 90 minute race in the BES 1.0 at Mt Panorama where I chose the 911 and came 3rd (of 34).
I gave my setup to a strong driver who was struggling and he found 3.5 sec in 2 laps. In essence you need some diff lock on coast and very low on power side and some lower slow bump damper settings on the rear to get it to behave.
Ill also post a setup for Bathurst.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/to97pewx3oc9z5s/BES911GT3Bathurst race.svm?dl=0
it needs some more brake cooling (discovered later opt temsp are 250-550 deg) and for other tracks with less downhill esses you can reduce diff lock on coast a little.
For some more detail I will copy a conversation from another community thread here........

I was pretty balanced with my views that many like the URD GTE and it was just a preference of mine that I dont. Thats just an opinion I guess.

Re the Darche.
I have read the same article that you quote here. However it seems very hard to find an actual weight distibution on the current model.
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/porsche-991-gte/

On close reading of the changes we see that:
The engine is unchanged (the rear-most heavy part in the 911)
The lighter gearbox actually lives near the middle of the car so won't have a huge effect on weight distribution IMO.
The other changes including carbon fibre panels and light weight windows occur everywhere not just at the rear. In fact there are more bits forward of the rear axle to lighten so while overall weight is lower its not a big change in distribution.
The one item that would help is the new transaxle that allowed Porsche to move the engine very slightly fwd but it still hangs over the rear axle.
The lighter battery lower weight at the front.
Ironically the lowering of the overall weight makes the engine position more problematic. Bit like in the final scene in the Italian job, if a couple of the bank robbers hopped off the bus.

So the literature claims a lowering of centre of gravity but doesnt specifically say a movement forwards of weight distribution.
But lets say we allow it 1 (or 2% which is HEAPS) when the big heavy bits are still at the back.

I have the figures for the real world 2009 GT3RS its Front 38.5 / rear 61.5
The BES 911 GT3 which feels about right* is Front 41/ rear 59 C of G = 0.275m
The URD Darche is Front 44/ rear 56 C of G = 0.31m

Now even if Porsche performed miracles and got a 2% fore aft weight distribution change its still less than 41/59.
They didn't make it a mid engined car with a V engine (which sits much higher). Its rear mounted and its a flat 6 which with dry sump (no sump) it sits on the floor and also has huge implications for the C of G.
The numbers dont lie. But I started on my investigations because the car just felt wrong.
In a 911 if you have a little bit of steering lock and brake hard you will quite suddenly be facing the wrong way. Its all due to polar inertia. The heavy rear end will just obey Newtonian physics and attempt to keep travelling where it was travelling before hand. If the rest of the chassis is not perfectly aligned under brakes it will slow and farewell the rear as it passes. Thats what 911s do. The Darche behaves like a mid engined car. It just slides it doesn't swap ends. So i started digging and the numbers above are the result.
The C of G is also too high. It cant possibly be essentially the same as a mid mounted V8.
Have a look at a Ferrari engine position and the 911. It cant be the same.
Conclusion:
I appreciate that you took the time to cite a reference to enlighten me but my central point remains the same.
In my view the Weight distribution and C of G in the Darche at exactly the same as the Ferrucio are just plain wrong (if it wants to be a 911 GTE anyway) . It might be a nice car, (hey people like it) but its not anything like a 911.

If URD saw fit to fix it they would possibly have something very unique (which is what the 911 is)

Sincerely
David


* I have driven the 911 GT3, 911 Turbo and early 911s on race tracks in timed events. The one thing thats very evident is the mass at the rear. I have also driven Ferrari 355, 360 on many occasions on public roads.


My subltle point is that the 911 is driven with a slightly different technique due to its weight distribution. Once mastered its very effective. The top pros use it to their benefit.
I quote the respected US road and track publication in its piece on the 911 RSR.

Road and TRack Quote begins 30th April 2012.
"Patrick Long is a study in concentration, finely modulated aggression and economy of movement as he wrings out the high-performance sponge that is the production 911 GT3. Reflexive steering inputs arrest mid-corner twitches of yaw almost before they happen. His right hand darts from wheel to shifter to wheel again in milliseconds, recalling those slow-motion biology films where a frog zaps a hapless insect with a flick of its tongue. And always, always to the throttle early, taking keen advantage of the Porsche's tail-heavy weight bias and sticky, wide Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires to stabilize the chassis mid-corner and rocket out of turns. It's as if he's always two steps ahead of the car, precisely why he's a Porsche factory driver and I'm not."
and
By the team's own admission, its GT3 RSR isn't the fastest car out there, but it may have some advantages in corner entry, exit and managing the tires. Says Long: "A lot of it is utilizing the differential to turn the car, where going to the throttle in a lot of the other cars could create understeer on exit. We can also trail-brake quite a bit, which has helped us overtake during the race...with the engine in back we can load the nose and not overpower the front tires." Spoken like the true champion he is." Road and Track quote ends

This different style of driving is the unique flavour and allure of the 911. Once mastered its incredibly satisfying. To get that pendulum swing just as much as you want and no more with a tiny bit of lock under trailing brake then control it with the slightest of opposite lock and early and progressive throttle.
I can remember 18 months ago in the corner with no name after Rivage at Spa doing it in the BES 1.0 911 GT3 and a big smile broke out on my face and I said out loud "it is a 911 "
This style is needed on the 911 as well as being perfectly perpendicular to the braking forces when braking hard from high speed.
There is a benefit to be gained from braking progressively. The initial bite transfers the weight forwards to the fronts allowing them to bear much more load. Now the uneven weight distribution is an ally as the rears remain far more loaded than a mid or front mounted engine. This is the secret to the stunnig braking performance of the 911. Simply put the rears can do more work.

BOP and league Racing
I accept your point that the cars need to have similar performance for multiplayer or only one car would be chosen. That's exactly why I havent been pedantic about weight and drag co efficient. This is of course how BOP is managed. But I do believe we are wanting the same thing when you make you point about a mono type series.
I just want the 911 to be what it is. That little bit different and true to its favour embedded in its engineering roots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbLHG2VLEjA
 
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Great post david, and thank you very much for the setup, I was thinking on asking for a good setup (great to prove it's me who fails on correctly setting up the car and not the physics)

Regarding the title of this topic, a long time ago I converted a Group B 911 to rFactor2 (it's a conversion from RallyWorld Mod) It's very poorly done, but if anyone is willing to keep imporving it to get a proper rF2 mod, I will be glad to share the files with him.
 
LeStrat said:
Great post david, and thank you very much for the setup, I was thinking on asking for a good setup (great to prove it's me who fails on correctly setting up the car and not the physics)

Regarding the title of this topic, a long time ago I converted a Group B 911 to rFactor2 (it's a conversion from RallyWorld Mod) It's very poorly done, but if anyone is willing to keep imporving it to get a proper rF2 mod, I will be glad to share the files with him.
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Very kind of you to say so.
Let us know how you get on with the set up!!!

.
 
I just have one thing to say. You were absolutely right in all you wrote.

That setup is great.
 
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rF2 was released 3 year ago and no 911 yet. This is an absurd ! rF2 lacks a lot in cool street cars and historic cars and american muscle cars. Open your eyes rF2 or others sims will soon take your place... and then will be too late ! you just have been warned !!!
 
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