Porsche 911 GT3 Cup (2018) is now available!

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    What I think you are experiencing is that you have to reduce FFB multiplier, because it probably saturate your Wheel FFB capacity. In short you are getting a lot of clipping, for this reason you can't feel the car. Reduce FFB multiplier to 0.6 or 0.8 and test it again, I'm sure you will change your opinion.
     
  2. Zopzodeman

    Zopzodeman Registered

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    i did that and yes the bumps did feel better but at the same time the grip information from the front was lost , i ended up upping the ffb smoothing to 2 (from 0) . and it still feels overmodeled , feels more like the ac cobra then a racecar.
    I really regret buying this , i trained numerous laps on zandvoort , malaysia and nürburgring and this car is so overdone its not fun to drive Edit: it feels like a comical representation of a Rear-Motor Porsche..
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  3. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Zopzodeman I don't have this car yet, but the FFB Mult reduction (probably to around 0.7, if the other DLC is a guide) should help preserve the road feel, rather than making the bumps feel 'better' (weaker). Especially because you said it feels better on cold tyres (which will probably have less grip, and produce slightly lower FFB strength), it should help preserve some cornering grip feel.

    But I don't have the car, so... :cool:
     
  4. GrimDad

    GrimDad Registered

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    @Lazza
    I think S397 should gift you the car for all the support work you do for them ;)

    @Zopzodeman
    Are you using the default setup?
    Take a look at this post HERE it helps alot
     
  5. vitto

    vitto Registered

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    the correct pressure of the slick tires is 130 or 140 Kpa (as stated by a Porsche cup preparer) I use it like this, and I don't need to touch anything else.
     
  6. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    What wheel are you using ? I find the FFB to be really good, ive left it at 1.0 and smoothing at 0 and min at 0.5 on my CSWv2 . This is my new favorite car :)
     
  7. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    no, it remains splitted, it is the 05b car

    I feel the same, I'll try the advices posted
     
  8. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    I feel also better adding 3.0 3.5 camber
     
  9. Zopzodeman

    Zopzodeman Registered

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    @all : i tried multiple different setups and still the car feels better with cold tyres. Played around with the ForecFeedback multiplier and smoothing alot and best setting for my csl elite is 1.0 (85% on wheelset) , ffb smoothing 2...
    still dont like the car and i doubt any other setup will change that.like i said i think the behaviour is overrepresented and overmodeled just to make it artificially harder...
    when i look at nick driving here:
    hes totally relaxed , doesnt work the steering a lot , throttle is so early you often cant do that in rf2. and the car seems to ride along really smooth (especially as hes going over that kerb on the right side...) and i dont get that in the rf2 version.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  10. Zopzodeman

    Zopzodeman Registered

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    ok i played a LOT with the available setup options and kept an close look at tyre temperatures..
    - reducing the rear toe out significantly (0.2 degree from 0.557 ) reduces step out behaviour and tyre heating also significantly
    i noticed that with cold tyres (fresh out of the box at 30°C ) i can step on the gas much sooner plus handling is also more precise ....and this also goes for the old (0.557 degree ) toe out...
    so i tried keeping my out-lap really slow and tyre temps really low , which resulted in a greatly improved laptime and handling in the first timed lap (until the rear tyres heated up more then 70°C)
    it looks like the tyres dont like temps above 65-70 degrees...if you heat them up beyond that rear stepping out and general handling goes down the drain really fast and the tyres take long to cool down.

    looking at : https://www.subesports.com/michelin+race/31-71-r18-cup-n2/mic-96917

    says optimal temps between 60 - 100!!! ° C (140-212 °F) and recommended HOT pressure 2 - 2.2 bar (~200 kPa)

    so to me it looks like somethings off here....
     
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  11. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    Its not a question of temperature, its a question of pressure. Lower pressure means more grip in rFactor2
     
  12. Zopzodeman

    Zopzodeman Registered

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    did you really read and understand what i was posting?
    i and probably most users know that lower pressure means more grip in rf2....
    it would be way more helpful to do some temperature/grip observation yourself for the cup porsche and not throw common places around
    i had a fellow simracer also find the same thing i was posting.
     
  13. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    Use Motec i2Pro and don´t look to the tyre surface temperature.
    The surface temperature tells you almost nothing about the true condition of the tyre and I know that 65-70 are irrelevant. This is not a blanket statement. I also know that the rear tires heat up much more than the front ones which also means that the rear pressure increases more and that is exactly what leads to the balance problems because the rear contact area decreases proportionally more than the front. If you increase the pressure at the front or decrease it at the rear, you will have more understeer at the beginning, but after a few laps you will have a more neutral handling.
     
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  14. Zopzodeman

    Zopzodeman Registered

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    no point discussing this further with you...
     
  15. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    It's probably better if you first find out what tyre temperature rFactor2 shows you and that's completely different from the rubber temperature. There are sometimes 50 degrees and more in between. The surface cools down much faster than the rubber underneath, so if you're talking about 65 degrees, the tyre may already have 110 degrees according to Motec, which of course has a negative effect on the pressure.
     
  16. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Yes, in RF2, the tire temperature gauge (in cockpit) measure the temperature of the outer surface, this mean that the mass measured is very little while the surface is very large, surface temperature is not a good indicator of tire temperature, actually you can't even know within RF2 the condition of your tires. Only in the box you have a realistic reading (if memory doesn't fail me), so you should lap and then press ESC, and see the latest actual data in the garage.
    For the problem you describe, you could lower a bit the pressure in the rear axle and bring the braking bias a little forward. The first should improve hot tire contact patch, the second should reduce heat generation during braking. Also be more careful with throttle on turn exit will improve things too. Remember that there is not purpose in giving full throttle if the tires can't transmit all the power to the ground, yes flooring the pedal is pleasant but if the car does not accelerate laptime will suffer.
     
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  17. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    Like other posters, I have found the behavior of the Cup car very 'bouncy' and with quite abrupt FFB traits, and I'm not sure the real car reacts in this way. I don't think this is just down to FFB tweaking - perhaps the nature of this car is to create very high steering rack forces compared to other 'more pure' racing cars, so we have to adapt to suit; but I'd be more of the opinion this is a physics issue with the car, and the forces on the steering rack feel exaggerated.

    As regards the setup, the first thing I did as well was to reduce the toe at the rear and also to reduce the camber at both ends significantly. I've not gone as far as some yet. I also reduced the tire pressures quite a lot, which clearly made a great difference at Sebring for instance in overall grip both under heavy braking areas and traction out of those slower corners. The baseline setup seems awfully extreme.

    There's a tendency in all sims to have 'minimum tire pressures/minimum ride height/maximum camber' be the fastest, and without much effect on long-term running of the tire. In my opinion, this shouldn't be right. Even if faster on a single lap, handling should go away quickly and average lap times should be much better with logical pressures/cambers for long run results. In fact, lowering the tire pressures always seems to have a positive result, and that's wrong. The temperatures that build up in a tire are a result of friction on the tire surface (sliding) but most importantly to the heating effect of constant stretching (like what happens when you do this to a rubber band, the heat buildup is huge). Further, this heat escapes via two methods: convection to air, and conduction to the ground (which is why track surfaces heat up) and again its mostly due to the latter not the former. I think most people don't understand these. In fact, when we listen to what happens in most series (F1, IMSA) when the tires start running too hot and there is a chance of failure of the tire, the instructions are always to run a minimum pressure higher than teams might want to go for outright performance. In other words, increasing the tire pressures results in LOWERING the temperatures in critical regions of the tire. We don't seem to have this in any sim-tires, yet. Real world, either the temps get too high and you melt the beads (keeps tire on the rim) or it melts the shoulder area and you get delamination of the tread from the sidewalls. (I have experience of this working at Cooper Tire when there was the famous Ford Explorer Firestone tire failure debacle). Without the penalties of these types of failures, or the existence of critical regions, it seems the answer is to continually lower pressures (or the only way to avoid it is set minimum allowed garage pressures in the car files). iRacing have overdone the temperature results and grip reductions in the past, which I think is a direct result of this, and their latest NTMv7 tires are supposedly now trying to bring in concept of failures so setups aren't so extreme.
     
  18. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    I have to thank everyone here for the very interesting discussion here. All these aspects of the last 2 pages I will consider and try to implement. I hope the PoCup will be a little friendlier to me .
     
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  19. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    The highest camber values in rFactor2 definitely do not lead to the fastest laps. On the contrary, in slow corners, braking and accelerating you can clearly feel the disadvantage and also the temperature distribution suffers massively from wrong settings.
    As far as pressure is concerned, I know that in Formula 1 and DTM minimum pressures were introduced, in Formula 1 the teams even tried to trick by heating the air strongly, so that there was more pressure in the tyre during the control measurement than at the start of the race and in the DTM you sometimes drove under a 100hpa. So lower pressures have to offer an advantage depending on the tyres. The whole thing was forbidden only for safety reasons, but in principle it worked.
     
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  20. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    We called it the Ford Exploder, lol
    I worked at Dunlop at this time ;)
     
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