Porsche 911 GT3 Cup (2018) is now available!

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Whoa...This seems WAY off pace...

    12 laps of fuel, not any pushing, i'm not an Alien by any means, traffic, 29°C, natural real road, my usual low initial pressure values:
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    20191030214144_1.jpg
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    This pretty much after the session has started...

    I think, you wouldn't be 3s off pace (this time here is also 100% AI pace), if you are not using 185-190kPa cold.

    WHAIT....do you mean ROAD Atlanta, or Atlanta Motorsports Park? Sheesh :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  2. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn Registered

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    Road Atlanta, clear 0laps driven natural real road, normal tyre wear, normal road rubber formation, 50liter fuel, relaxed driving.
    I'm not fast driver, my own tune, relaxed driving same conditions and few secs off from 1:26, not single hot lap, constant pace.

    That Porsches "performance tune" is just example what gives way better feel to car than "default" setup, Studio 397 knows setup, they are already using several parts of it on their default.
     
  3. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Even, if you are not fast, as you say, you can believe me, you are able to, at least, smash 1:24 at this track without tooo much effort, the 1:23 was not a hotlap... Try your setup with the low pressure values, you will notice the difference, as soon, as you control turning with the throttle.^^
    The pressures alone are way too high for this car (at least in rF2) if you use this setup like in your RA screens.
    With pressures, for example, around 122 front/117 rear, you will probably gain WAY more drivability and also probably speed while cornering and exiting. I've just done a 20 min. race on Silverstone with low pressures and the AI at 102% had issues to keep up, with high pressures around 185, they were 1 sec. faster per lap, than me...
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  4. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn Registered

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    Tried "mint" with 112/117 (remembered your front suggestion wrong) and it was glueing car to track.. Realistic, no, grip, yes. It is ruining deflated tires on those pressures, rF seems to glitch tire psychics on there. Actually physics doesn't fail, but damage model does, it should rip sidewalls from tires in a few laps or broke rims on curb hits, crossing fingers at Studio 397 fixes tire damage model to kill such deflated pressure driving. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  5. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Take a look at the telemetry graphs in the last posts...the tyres are going to be on way higher warm pressure. You are using inflated tyres in real life aswell, that you shouldn't "break in" to hard, in the out-lap, but i don't know how right it is, to use that low values...

    The GT3R for example, ends up on pretty much exactly 185 kPa final pressure, when racing it over distance, i've tested it yesterday with initial about 141-146 kPa or so. So this could be a coincidence, but i think, the 185 is a final value, not an initial one...
     
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  6. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn Registered

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    @CrimsonEminence Yokohama states:
    "You should never over- or under-inflate a tyre as this may cause severe damage to tyres and /or rims when accelerating, braking or cornering. Never use tyres with under 19 psi (130 kPa). Remember that the proper pressure depends on the type of race, road surface conditions and driver’s needs."
    :D
     
  7. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Yes, the initials seem too low for me. To get a drivable car, especially with GTE and the Cup, you have to plug in very low initials, and these values are strange. Nobody would drive with 16 psi or 112 kPa, to archieve working final pressures, with a usable car in real life. It is probably possible, to have a compromise with slightly higher values for muh immersion, but this isn't working, as it should.

    So, a conclusion of this journey here for me:

    PLEASE fix your tyre model, or whatever leads to these strange development of car behaviour over time, S397. There is something off. Love you guys, no offense.
     
  8. Scoopscat7

    Scoopscat7 Registered

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    “Nobody would drive with 16 psi or 112 kPa, to archieve working final pressures, with a usable car in real life.”

    Just an observation Caterham 7s can and do work with 16psi starting cold pressure. It’s pretty much on the limit but seen it in practice.

    And yes I know this is not the car this thread is about.
     
  9. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Yeah, exactly...it is not about a lightweight roadster with probably less sensitive tyres...
    The observations were made with a Porsche Cup, this is, what has been meant. And you would probably harm your tyres and maybe even losing them in the out-lap, if these low initial pressures are used in reality.^^

    I mean...a Caterham Seven has basically no weight, never driven one, except in sims and you can throw it around like crazy there :D
     
  10. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    Pirelli 2017 for 991.1 cup: warm 29psi Minimum (200kpa) !!
    Cold 21psi Minimum (145kpa), no hard pushing or curb driving allowed before pressure builds up.
     
  11. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Whoa...
    Yes, this is over the drivable range in rF2....there is something off, i stay with my post...

    With these pressures, you are getting slower in the Sim and have a quite murderous car after 3 laps...The drive with around 200 kPa is absolutely crazy on throttle...such a tight margin on exit for throttle inputs, this isn't right. I hang on...
     
  12. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Over driveable range? Don't be so dramatic. It's fine, just slower.

    You are getting slower in real life after few laps of pushing the car like hell. When tires are fresh and crisp, you push them and produce extreme laptime, that takes the edge off the tire and then they slowly stabilize on a level that they remain in a state of equilibrium. All you need to do is let the car flow.

    Tires have some issues and bugs with them in rF2 but heat and pressure build up are not one of them, could be still improved but general logic behind them are correct as of now.

    Tight margins on exit with throttle applications could be result of many more things combined than just tires, I'm afraid. What is it? Can't tell you since car is encrypted. However cars I've worked on with logical and reasonable usage behave correctly for the most part.

    Short story time:
    I had a drive with my Polo yesterday. Sth felt off. I checked pressures when I came home and fronts were 195-ish and rear just over 200 KPa. It should have been 215-220 front and only 15-20 KPa made a huge difference in how the car felt. When your race car has 40-50 and in some cases 60 KPa build up over only 10 min or so then it's ok to have a car that starts off with being one animal and end up being a complete different one. :)
     
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  13. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    TWO seconds on the edge...2(!!) depending on initial pressure
    I'm aware of changing behaviour over a stint, i do this for quite a while.
    Did you tried the Cup car by yourself?

    Did you look at the graphs, i have posted?
    Did you've driven test stints by yourself with it and varying pressures and logged it? If so, you're welcome to share it.

    If you don't see the completely wrong values, compared to real life, then fine, you're good to go^^

    But the discrepancy IS quite dramatic.
     
  14. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Yes, I have tried it. :)

    Once All Saints day is finished I might test it and record telemetry. No promises though since it is very fluid for me, time that is.
     
  15. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    So, you would say, that using 145 kPa initial will give you a pace, that can keep up with a 100-102% AI consistently for example? o_O

    If you can hit stintwise 2:05-2:06, maybe even low 2:07 on the later laps, on silverstone with realistic(!!) pressure values or run 2:00, consistent on Nurbürgring, than i believe you, that it is over dramatically.^^

    DISCLAIMER:
    If you are an alien, and able to drive fast, even with a mashed potatoe with some wires and an USB plug, than this could be problematic for comparison, because it could be, that you are smashing fast times with basically everything then and it doesn't matter :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  16. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    We are talking about tires now or pace? Because there's more to pace than just tires.

    Also no top tier driver pushes to the limit on initial laps when grip is at the highest just to suffer through the rest of the stint. :)

    I will do the test since my testing was limited to the day it was released and perhaps 20 or so timed laps on Nurb GP so I can't pretend to know everything about the car yet. :) But there are cars with tires that I know much more after thousands of laps done on them and they are not half bad. :)
     
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  17. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    I bought the car but I have not had the opportunity to connect my PC since.

    Tell me, does this car seem to you as realistic as the other 100% S397 cars ?

    I only read a small part of the thread posts (sometimes reading dozens of posts, often technical, in English, is too undrinkable for me), and I have the impression that some people think that the physics of the mod has a problem.

    So, tell me what you think please.
     
  18. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    I think, this car has an issue with high/realistic tyre pressures in terms of grip, and not enough steering angle btw.
    Not with this car...i have posted a working setup, a few pages below. But basically it all ends with lowering tyre pressure.
    ...it is not about a wrong setup or driving style here, it is about something broken...
    I'm aware of that, again, i'm not new to this, as shitty, as it sounds :-/ 2 minutes straight on Nürburg GP aren't the ulitimate limit...for fast guys at least, if driven with lower pressure than real life
    This is another thing here...i also get used to the car, but it will basically kill you with high initial tyre pressures...
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  19. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Who are you asking here? :)
     
  20. Akela_DE

    Akela_DE Registered

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