Poll: Is this driving realistic?

[Havner]

This could be easily tested and checked, I find it interesting so I'll do some testing and maybe post a video about this. You might be right, maybe it is "too easy" to do but I'm 100% sure there are consequences that does not benefit in the long run.

But to test this I have to do complete stint, not single laps out of nowhere. And of course, I have to record times when I lose the car as well, after all the question is : is it a clear exploit that ruins the experience ? if it is doable but with great consequences or very hard to do, is it really a problem ?

I don't think there are really any negative consequences for 45 minute races. Like the GTE Competition we had in December. Which is already a problem. With driving like this your tires are ~60-70% at the end and still grip well enough. While lap times gain on this. Significantly I might add.

 

[mantasisg]

@ATQ Yes every tire probably would slam him with driving like that. But there is big deal about how hard and how fast the tire can bite in. Thats a matter of miliseconds to not be straightening wheels too late. I don't have a figures, but approximately while perhaps some tire would give 500miliseconds to do just that, some other might give 100miliseconds. And it also depends on many other circumstances of course.

I think correctly judging the circumstances and observing how quickly these grip phases change is absolutely vital to understand how real car/tires works. It might be the key of "difficulty".

There are some other factors that IMO is a sign of difficulty. For example if laptimes are dispersed through wider range, then it means that the learning curve is less steep, it takes more effort, practice to improve. But thats statistics.... The thing about lesser range dispersion of laptimes is that it makes the simulation "more equal to everybody", simply by downscaling the differences. Skills are still proportional, but the time separation between pro and noob will decrease. In case of iRacing it could be beneficial to have people spending lots of time "climbing the ladder" as people spends money for using iRacing, so they have overly demanding tires. In case of ACC and rF2 it doesn't matter, because income is based on how much people buy, not how much they play, mastered one car, then move on to next one, and these titles now have a tendency to keep on "equalising" everybody till people stops buying because of disbelief and not feeling sporting spirit anymore.

 

[Nieubermesch]

I'll have to admit this is tiring. Sometimes I might get carried away with my findings, but I'm mostly trying to find useful examples, Information and even went to Studio 397 blog to try to find some clues. I bet some of the people here at the time of the improvements would have said, "oh car slides, can't you see? They can be driven like go karts or as if bias ply tires too, there's not much difference between the two!". Devs then come around and admit something was wrong and I am not saying that problem would have to persist, but it could been so strange before, that correcting it would wield good enough results to them. I don't see a lot of bad faith from anyone here, even Slip Angel is more frustrated with some of users responses and he might be with devs that while they've done a lot, they also have been promising things for god knows how long too... I supported Rfactor2 the day I bought it and I was in and out because I found some of this things by myself, but now I ended up buying a lot of stuff from Steam and I am happy to still support this awsome plataform and what I want is it to be even better, if it isn't a massive undertaking...

 

[Nieubermesch]

"

Leaving this here, as I don't want to be called biased. Alonso driving style looks simillar to what can be seen on the videos above, at least excessive steering input and throwing cars into the corners. The thing is, if you listen carefully, it was achieved with some special setups on the rear and not all tires are able to reproduce this. In Rfactor2 we have more than one car doing this with some setups more than others. It could be happening that suspension wise and such, it's creating this behavior.
Realize that not all the behaviors in the two videos of Rfactor2 are the same as what Alsono is doing in an F1 car. There is too much controlled oversteer and slip angles with a different behavior not induced by understeer and car regaining grip again. It's important to not only look at it and generalize. Thanks."

I added this to the OP. Seems important to me to also show some more extreme examples happening in reality, but important is also to not take those situations out of context!

[QUOTE="MarcG, post: 1057557, member: 22888"]How about this side of the argument; Of the posters here & other threads, are any of them actually good enough in their race craft to warrant seriously listening too on the potential flaws of the Sim? Or are they just average drivers "thinking" they're Michael Schumacher and seeing what they believe are "flaws", when in reality it's their own skill sets not being good enough to actually determine what a "flaw" is?

For Example; A Race Engineer will listen more closely to a Driver whose had 1000 Race Starts than he/she would if a Driver had just 10. The same rule applies here, Should the Devs listen to experienced Sim Racers with a history of Sim Racing more closely, than a few Sim Racers who perhaps have only done a few Races Online and a bunch Offline and continually post in multiple threads without providing hard facts?

I'm certainly not saying the Devs should ignore everyone/anyone regardless of their Sim Racing Skills, all constructive feedback is great when presented in a pleasant manner with good intentions by anyone with any amount of experience. But they have to be careful, especially in topics surrounding Physics, they they get the right feedback from people who actually A) Know what they're talking about, B) Have vast experience in the right scenarios and C) Present good feedback with detailed Analytics & Data.

At the end of the day the Devs (generalising here not just S397) have Coders and Experts working for them alongside Real Drivers & Engineers (as Testers) who have the Knowledge, have the experience and also have the means to get the hard data first hand. It's therefore my personal prerogative that I entrust in what they put out in their Sim (of choice) over the ranting of a few people in multiple threads on a forum, for sure not every Dev has it 100% spot on and no doubt some issues/flaws exist in each and every Sim. But for the most part it's their Code, their Data, their expertise and their Sim needs to be treated as their vision of what Real Race Driving is like.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I've already expressed a simillar view. We want the developers to listen to us, maybe some more than others of course, than they should be qualified enough to see if there is a problem wich we can help find, because we have the job of driving the sim, they have to do that and much more, so sometimes things have to be limited how much they will refine things and they leave it unoptimized and close to 100% realistic possible.

chewing gum tyres, that is what rf2 tyres feel like lol. Too much elasticity (can go big angels on these gt slicks) and not enough tension to return it back (i.e no bite back to snap it back to grip quickly & strongly ).

Have you tried the new mod cars? You can see that not all tires feel like that. Try them please.

Adding fuel to the fire.

 

[Timotej Andonovski]

Henri's teammate here, the guy that makes the car behave as it does. I have to say one thing: yall need to reevaluate your driving, the concept of the sim, or the simplest solution, delete rF2.
What Henri does is done by every 'pro', but unlike Henri who uses the car's default steering lock, they use 330-370 degrees set in-game. This puts the same lock on the tires, but a lot less on the actual steering input.
Additionally, this is only for hotlaps. What Henri does, will never work in a race and he does not drive like that. Even in the given hotlap, his driving is a bit much, but it still produces laptimes, but only for 1 lap. The tires are gone on the second lap.
Yall are acting all-knowing, knowledgeable, real-life engineers like, but in reality you're coming off as retarded, to put it lightly.
Stop acting high and mighty, and perhaps adapt a setup that actually works, instead of coming to conclusions like ABS, Steering Help, or whatever excuse for poor driving...

 

[Yzangard]

Henri's teammate here, the guy that makes the car behave as it does. I have to say one thing: yall need to reevaluate your driving, the concept of the sim, or the simplest solution, delete rF2.
What Henri does is done by every 'pro', but unlike Henri who uses the car's default steering lock, they use 330-370 degrees set in-game. This puts the same lock on the tires, but a lot less on the actual steering input.
Additionally, this is only for hotlaps. What Henri does, will never work in a race and he does not drive like that. Even in the given hotlap, his driving is a bit much, but it still produces laptimes, but only for 1 lap. The tires are gone on the second lap.
Yall are acting all-knowing, knowledgeable, real-life engineers like, but in reality you're coming off as retarded, to put it lightly.
Stop acting high and mighty, and perhaps adapt a setup that actually works, instead of coming to conclusions like ABS, Steering Help, or whatever excuse for poor driving...

Yeah...we all know you are almighty drivers and we are all just noobs.

Post a video with in-game wheel so we can check what you are saying. Isn't it strange that after hours of tries I didn't manage to come close to what he did, best lap time was [EDIT] actually I won't post lap times, I just let everyone test it, it is not relevant after all [END EDIT] and could use the same input steering technique as he does ?

He is surely a good e-sport driver, maybe even an alien...but as long as I don't see a video with in-game steering wheel, I won't believe what you just said or could you explain why on other corners the steering input is the same as mine ?

 

[Timotej Andonovski]

Yeah...we all know you are almighty drivers and we are all just noobs.

Post a video with in-game wheel so we can check what you are saying. Isn't it strange that after hours of tries I didn't manage to come close to what he did, best lap time was [EDIT] actually I won't post lap times, I just let everyone test it, it is not relevant after all [END EDIT] and could use the same input steering technique as he does ?

He is surely a good e-sport driver, maybe even an alien...but as long as I don't see a video with in-game steering wheel, I won't believe what you just said or could you explain why on other corners the steering input is the same as mine ?

Are you really that daft?! Guess you are...
Here is my lap:

With steering and braking input. STOP BEING IN DENIAL IF YOU"RE SHIT!

 

[Yzangard]

Are you really that daft?! Guess you are...
Here is my lap:

With steering and braking input. STOP BEING IN DENIAL IF YOU"RE SHIT!

Excuse me but the steering technique is not the same at all, here we can only see in-game wheel, can I get a video with both wheels ?

Why in Henri's video the wheel is turned like crazy but here in game the wheel doesn't match it ? ok, not the same driver but the steering technique is not the same, here I don't see any problem.

Oh and the argument of "I am good, you are shit" is probably very important in your schoolyard, but I'm way past that age. Keep your insults for your friends.

 

[mantasisg]

@Timotej Andonovski With that attitude you aren't going to get far in discussions.

Your driving looks really alien ^, comparing to Henri driving yours look absolutely unreal, while his driving appeard just a fraction unrealistic of that. maybe thats some faulty replay IDK, but at some palces it looked choppy like if it would be kind of artificial intellienge driving, not saying that it was, just looked like that at few places.

Understandably it takes incredible skills, and metamorphosis in driving technique comparing to real life. The physics should not allow these things. And the subjects of these discussions are not how good or bad the driver is, but what is doable in the first place.

 

[Timotej Andonovski]

Excuse me but the steering technique is not the same at all, here we can only see in-game wheel, can I get a video with both wheels ?

Why in Henri's video the wheel is turned like crazy but here in game the wheel doesn't match it ? ok, not the same driver but the steering technique is not the same, here I don't see any problem.

If this will make you stop acting like an entitled bitch that is always right, I'd be happy...

 

[Yzangard]

If this will make you stop acting like an entitled bitch that is always right, I'd be happy...

Are you serious ? Man, do you see the difference in steering input between this video and the ones posted earlier ?

Where is the problem with your video ? is there anything to worry about here ?

And stop insulting me or I'll report you. My questions are legit and you still didn't replied them correctly.

 

[Slip_Angel]

@Timotej Andonovski Godamn you are idiot and actually blind.
Such technique would not work IRL EVEN FOR ONE LAP.
You most probably crash HARD and if that doesn't kill you the accident cost will.
Such technique is unrealistic and does not work IRL , especially for hotlap.
Lmao what a trash observation skills. your eyes aren't even worth donating GTFO.

P.S ->> You are calling other acting high and mighty but in reality you are acting like that. Setting hotlaps in video games doesn't NOT make you special,no one will care if you existed or not anyway.

 

[Yzangard]

@Timotej Andonovski Godamn you are idiot and actually blind.
Such technique would not work IRL EVEN FOR ONE LAP.
You most probably crash HARD and if that doesn't kill you the accident cost will.
Such technique is unrealistic and does not work IRL , especially for hotlap.
Lmao what a trash observation skills. GTFO.

Man, don't use insults neither please, I'm sure you are above that.

You were right, there is indeed an exploit but it is not the physics that are to blame. The video posted by Timotej are legit imho, maybe a bit "unrealistic" but nothing really out of mind.

Henri's video in another hand...clearly impossible

 

[Comante]

Timotej, in the grand scheme of things, skill apart, between wheel, pedals and monitor, what do you think is the piece of equipment that help you more? For example, are your monitors 144 Hz or 60? (I'm very interested in this aspect).

 

[Timotej Andonovski]

Timotej, in the grand scheme of things, skill apart, between wheel, pedals and monitor, what do you think is the piece of equipment that help you more? For example, are your monitors 144 Hz or 60? (I'm very interested in this aspect).

The thing that helped me the most is the motivation to do better. I've had some improvements when I jumped from a table-mounted G27 on a desktop monitor to a full sim rig with triples, but the biggest factor was actually learning and adapting. Watch pros, S397 posts all replays, download them, learn their techniques, and inputs.
Watch their live streams. Currently, the best driver that actively streams is Risto Kappet imo, go watch his older vods. Have a will to learn instead of finding blame in the game, physics, tires, cars, etc. This is a game! There will always be exploits, no matter the title.

 

[Dave^]

Well, that escalated quickly...

Has anyone tried to beat Henri's times?

I came within two seconds of his Levorg / Silverstone International laptime and I'm not a quick driver, irl or in rf2....

 

[Comante]

The thing that helped me the most is the motivation to do better. I've had some improvements when I jumped from a table-mounted G27 on a desktop monitor to a full sim rig with triples, but the biggest factor was actually learning and adapting. Watch pros, S397 posts all replays, download them, learn their techniques, and inputs.
Watch their live streams. Currently, the best driver that actively streams is Risto Kappet imo, go watch his older vods. Have a will to learn instead of finding blame in the game, physics, tires, cars, etc. This is a game! There will always be exploits, no matter the title.

Thank you, I'm into simracing since RF1* times, but apparently never been able to cut it. Being a obsessive-compulsive kind of person, I interrogate myself if it's time to give up (at least to the idea to be decent) or to invest a bit into the hobby. I will try your suggestion, I never thought that following youtubers could help, but I'll give it a shot... as it is free.

* that's false, I'm into it since Indianapolis 500 on Amiga.

Thank you!

 

[Yzangard]

Well, that escalated quickly...

Has anyone tried to beat Henri's times?

I came within two seconds of his Levorg / Silverstone International laptime and I'm not a quick driver, irl or in rf2....

Again the issue is not his pace, with perfect driving you could be as fast...the problem is this steering technique.

 

[Yzangard]

The thing that helped me the most is the motivation to do better. I've had some improvements when I jumped from a table-mounted G27 on a desktop monitor to a full sim rig with triples, but the biggest factor was actually learning and adapting. Watch pros, S397 posts all replays, download them, learn their techniques, and inputs.
Watch their live streams. Currently, the best driver that actively streams is Risto Kappet imo, go watch his older vods. Have a will to learn instead of finding blame in the game, physics, tires, cars, etc. This is a game! There will always be exploits, no matter the title.

There is no problem with being fast and the video you posted have nothing I could complain about. The problem is when I see a player turning his wheel to the stop abruptly with the car following the perfect line without any issue...this is not what you did.

 

[Dave^]

Again the issue is not his pace, with perfect driving you could be as fast...the problem is this steering technique.

Who cares what his "technique" is?

There are millions of drivers, & every one of them have a different style of driving.

He's not cheating, he's not ramming people off the track, so what does it matter?

Edit, I remember Aliens in GPL using a fricking keyboard, does that matter? You certainly can't say that was realistic!