POLL // How important are physics a priority for you for rF2 (your wish for the rF2 future) ?

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by DrivingFast, Nov 22, 2019.

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How important are physics a priority for you for rF2 ? (your wish for the rF2 future)

  1. I wish that physics remains about the same as today

    3 vote(s)
    4.1%
  2. I wish physics is a little better but not more

    8 vote(s)
    11.0%
  3. I hope that physics is significantly improved

    21 vote(s)
    28.8%
  4. I want physics to be S397's number one priority, ahead of other priorities

    41 vote(s)
    56.2%
  1. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I don't see a-lot of sliding in the GT3 races I've watched on TV.(with the exception of the Acura NSX on worn tires at the end of last year's Spa race.) Certainly not in the Imsa GTD races. You may find some quibble with lack of tire wear, but the slicks run by most GT3 variants are very grippy.
    Touring cars, which tend to use a smaller wheel/tire do have some built in slide, just don't recall seeing a GT3 behaving badly.
    finally, you should have the Nissan GT500 R in your stable. Give that a try and let us know if that is the feeling you are looking for.
     
  2. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    There is one thing I do know when that style of question is asked.
    Seeing as I have never driven anything remotely similar, any answer from me claiming yes or no would be pointless..
     
  3. Haris1977

    Haris1977 Registered

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    Just compare any GT3 car of rf2 with let's say ACC's cars. For me the later feel way better
     
  4. David Wright

    David Wright Registered

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    We have to accept that even though we drive the same software, we all have completely different perceptions of the same software. If you had asked me which slides more - ACC GT3s or rF2 GT3s I would have said the rF2 GT3s.
     
  5. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Plus, often people are judging game cars in comparison to other game cars, and even real life race drivers can only make limited and subjective comparisons because of the very different environment when playing a game.

    It's a little like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checker_shadow_illusion
     
  6. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    You may be right, but considering that ACC doesn't have a skidpad, you can't do a proper comparison, your conclusion is purely subjective. Especially subjective when you're using game cars as your point of reference rather than the real cars. Numbers, man, you need numbers!
     
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  7. Haris1977

    Haris1977 Registered

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    It is not only the sliding. It is the feeling in your wheel (ffb included) you get driving acc’s cars. I do not try to compare things here, it is just my opinion. Btw - if i remember correctly - older rf2’s versions (10xx) had better physics (?).
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  8. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Vehicle handling, especially at the extremes is quite complex problem. Tire alone is super complex, add very different vehicles that use tires differently and various different circumstances like surface and road characteristics.

    We will never be able to talk about simulation without properly understanding basics and calling same things same names and avoiding any abstract meanings. So far it only looks like it can only get worse. Complex simulation discussions would benefit of well structured thoughts, precise expressions and all based on good knowledge. Devs and smartest guys has left this environment long ago, probably to stay sane and keep their time to themselves to do proper stuff. However, at the end having communities majorly uneducated will not provide any support to prevent degradation. And it is enough to look at the simracing reddit to see that the only stuff that is really having a ride on wave is materialistic stuff like rigs and gear. Many already reduces simulation down to FFB, because all they can understand about physics is that it makes FFB do things, at least they would know why - that should be bare minimum for a simracer to understand.
     
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  9. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    I'm confused. I thought to have an opinion regarding a number of similar items would be achieved by making a comparison.
     
  10. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member

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    I personally feel like other than lack of gearbox simulation and the fact that old detachable part damage is better in some ways than new model, pretty happy with physics. Would rather see improvements in race rules - make SC phase dead reliable, add mandatory pit stops, weekend rules.
     
  11. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    I thought detachable parts still exist and the new damage model added visual scratches/wear to replace the bendable parts we had in rF1?
     
  12. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member

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    I do not race official content much, primarily because of how damage is implemented. They lose some parts (and that's good), but mostly body just gets scratches, and suspension damage. I like how damage is with URD T5/Apex GT3/Enduracers, old rF2 way. In particular in T5 you actually lose front downforce when you lose front aero, which is very immersive and makes race very tense, just as IRL you try to avoid contact at any cost. I am not an expert on rF2 content modding, but some modders told me that deachable parts and scratch based model cannot be used together, or at least there are some limitations. I know rF2 is not a Wreckfest, and I do not need it to be, but especially newer DLC cars (FE 2019, M2) are quite indestructible IMHO and that hurts immersion.

    But back on topic - pretty content with physics as is, would like investments elsewhere :) but we all like different things.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  13. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    I agree on the indestructibility. I had to go test scratches & detachable parts, particularly on FE 2019. Wheels fall off, but the fenders/wings only get scratches. Maybe the limitation is that if a part falls off, then it can't get scratched? Or maybe S397 feel more broken parts will hurt fps too much?

    As far as physics go, adding hybrid powertrains and figuring out something for transmission/clutch damage are both overdue. The rest of it seems to work well.
     
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  14. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member

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    No idea, but it feels like 2 steps forward 3 steps back in terms of damage :( I know negativity does not work in life, and we have to be positive but indestructability of official content (which is supposed to set the bar and use the engine fully) really hurts rF2 recently, and seeing what iRacing and Raceroom do in that area... it is concerning. It really hurts the realism and immersion of what is supposed to be motorsports event, where collision costs money and could cause injury. I left Raceroom because of how their damage was, but now it is changing. The bright side is that community content still works, Apex cars burn, T5 cars simulate aero loss, but competition is catching up, whereas official content is moving backwards. What is weird is that even FE 2018 was better done, FE 2019 is really disappointing, this is the first car that really left me confused. Sure, I'll keep buying DLCs because of upcoming competition system, but I am afraid without penalizing damage it won't feel real and requiring 110% focus.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  15. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    iRacing's new damage model looks amazing, and once all the cars have it divebombing from 1.5s back is going to be eliminated overnight :p
     
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  16. dylbie

    dylbie Registered

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    Better than Wreckfest: rFactor1 :)



    PS Bring back Vertex Deformation!!!
     
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  17. Haris1977

    Haris1977 Registered

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    I mean i do not want to open an endless discussion about physics here. I know physics is a subjective matter: we all understanding it in a different manner. My opinion is that tire physics and (or) ffb is not good in specific classes of that game. To be exact: gt3 pack and gt3 challengers pack. Those cars have a huge grip. They do not slide at all. Their limit is way too high. When they loose grip you have to correct the wheel but that should happen earlier. Just my opinion
     
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  18. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    I'll just post the words from the op.

    He asks if we want change and our wishes for any change.
    DrivingFast wants us to talk about physics in his thread, that he created, about ..........physics!
    You can start your own thread about a subject that you don't want discussed, even endlessly.
     
  19. Haris1977

    Haris1977 Registered

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    I had some spare time yesterday. So i decided to drive some cars in GSE (Stock Car Extreme). I know, i know. A veeeeery old game. But, do you believe that even in that old game (in terms of physics and graphics) the in game cars (minis, evo's, opalas) feel better than almost all cars here? Especially the minis are very fun to drive. Of course different classes but..you get the point.

    I even decided to try a gt3 car (ferrari vs porshe mod) to compare apples to apples here. Way better feeling. That makes me think that simpler is better (in terms of physics).
     
  20. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Depends what you mean by better. When it comes to feelings (this feels good, that doesn't) anything goes. That one thing feels better to you doesn't mean it's more (or less) accurate, and generally while everyone has an opinion very few have real data they can validate their feelings with.

    So play whatever feels good to you, make the best of what doesn't if you feel compelled to play it (for competitions or whatever), and probably don't worry about trying to work out what's accurate and what's not.

    It's also possible that in some time you might try both again and find rF2 feels better; it could depend on what you've been driving, which games you've been playing, or even a different hardware setup.

    One thing to keep in mind: the people making rF2's physics made changes to the simpler rF1 system based on their experience dealing with professionals in the racing world and real data. rF1 itself had a tyre model ISI developed in an effort to improve upon the Pacejka model, and again I think it's fair to assume that was done because of experience with real data. You can make (and drive!) an unrealistic car in rF2 and a more realistic car in another game (or vice versa, obviously) but there's a reason for the underlying approach. For that reason rF2 should (and must, really) have a better potential outcome than a simpler game, but it's no guarantee. Then throw that 'feeling' thing in there again and all bets are off.
     
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