Please don't alienate your offline base

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by fsuarez79, May 16, 2019.

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  1. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

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    I'd like to give a critic trying to be as respectful as possible at the same time.

    First of all, I appreciate that the issue of AI lap times at Zandvoort will very soon be fixed but this caught my attention for the following reason:
    This issue was missed during testing of all three versions 0.20, 0.35 and now 1.02, which leads me to believe (and as someone else also pointed out) that for quite some time testing has been done exclusively ONLINE, completely disregarding AI, otherwise this issue would've been caught instantly.
    My request is simple.....Don't alienate your offline base and add a tick box to your testing checklist called "TEST AI" (whether it's a car or a track).

    I understand that Multiplayer is getting a lot of attention right now with the competition system and even after its release it will be an ongoing thing but you also need to realize you have a huge offline base (relatively speaking) not interested in multiplayer. In order to keep your customers happy (and loyal) the AI is equally important and as it has already been documented several times in this forum, the issues are piling up.
     
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  2. 006

    006 Registered

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    Even if they fix the bug you're talking about, i havent found a mod that can get round turn 2(?) reliably. If you know of 1 please tell me as i would like to do a bit of racing there :p

    Edit: i also agree and would very much like to see AI improvements across the board.
     
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  3. bhendrik

    bhendrik Registered

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    hear hear, could not have said it better. I'm a loyal customer of rf1 and rf2 since the beginning, but i must admit that the lack of attention to the ai is deeply concerning. Like the OP said, you've got a relatively large offline customer base, who don't care about online racing (or just don't have time for it) and really enjoy a good (endurance) race against the ai. You've created a great ai wich we can adjust to are liking with virtual drives, custom skins, adjusting talent files, agression and speed, but the are still many issues to solve, which for some years now don't get the attention of studio 397. Maybe i'm wrong in assuming this, but the facts state that i may be very close to the truth.
    For the sake of this loyal offline customer base, please attend this issues
    Thanks in advance, a loyal offline customer
     
  4. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    In all respects, the improvements of the "offline mode" are not relevant, whereas they are hugely necessary.

    Worse, improvements in "online mode", which are necessary even if they do not interest me, are clearly made at the expense of the "offline mode", due to a massive investment for the "online mode" that the effect of constantly pushing the improvements of the "offline mode".

    This is a major mistake :

    It is important to know how to please everyone.

    This is not the case for offline/online.

    The AI is so bad that I prefer to do qualifications rather than real races, it's a shame.
     
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  5. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

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    +100 points.
    While yes, Multiplayer is/can be way more fun than racing AI you just have to compare the "global" playercount in Steam with the serverlist of rFactor (also in/over steam) and you will see that, I guess, over 90% of the players are not online but offline (or they just watch the menus idk). To be honest, even with the new comp and UI system I'm still not sure if this will really change something. Yes, racing online will be easier. Yes, it will be moddable and you will be able to change it. Yes, it will makes things better. But will it bring the playerbase to succeed and have the same online experience than iR ?
    I say no. Why ? iRacing is (already) too big. It has resources which no other sim has. It has a name no other sim has. And people already spend way too much money there to just leave it for something (even) better
     
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  6. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

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    I agree. It will make things better and what will most likely do is bring more new players and potentially steal some from iRacing. To what extent? I have no idea.....but I wouldn't expect the ratio between offline and online to change dramatically so disregarding single player would be a bad move.
     
  7. Christopher Elliott

    Christopher Elliott Administrator Staff Member

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    It's fine to voice your opinion, but trying to extrapolate and make all these assumptions because of a mistake is a bit extreme...it has nothing to do with our support for 'offline'. Plain and simple, we missed this bug and it will be fixed in the next update (very soon) :)
     
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  8. bhendrik

    bhendrik Registered

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    @Christopher Elliott, thanks for the reply, but I think your are missing the point here. The ai Zandvoort bug is just an example. You're right, i'ts a mistake and its;s getting fixed, no harm there. But al the other "mistakes", like ai behavior during rainy conditions, safetycar, the Merc ai in your official DLC etc etc, have been around for a long time. Obviously, these are not little bugs that can be fixed fast. But.....we like to know what's going on there. Are you still working on it, can it be fixed, and if yes, when. We are quite patient. We don't expect these issues to be resolved tomorrow, but....hey..what's happening?

    You can't be surprised if people are getting inpatient after al these time, with no word on what's happening with these issues. Your answer is not addressing are concerns, but only goes in to that small mistake at Zandvoort. That is not our point, and it should not be yours too
     
  9. mr.Sw1tchblade

    mr.Sw1tchblade Registered

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    IMG_20190517_114432.jpg


    For those who haven't seen this at RD
     
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  10. marvelharvey

    marvelharvey Registered

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    Me from an old thread:

    Race ruining issues:
    1. Under FCY, the pack may split into two. One following the safety car as normal and the other drives at varying speeds (20km to 120km). I think this issue is only present when using Stock Car rules?
    2. When a car is preparing to come into the pits, cars behind will not overtake for the duration of the preceding lap. Even if they're different classes.
    3. Poor fuel estimations
    4. Totally bonkers tyre choices when it's raining (i.e. starting on slicks and coming into the pits on lap 1)
    Lesser issues
    1. AIs can sometimes find themselves in a pack of drafting cars, but refuse to overtake. Instead of pulling out of the draft to pass, they brake. This is until the player is detected behind, at which point they move to the defensive line and now with no cars ahead, promptly overtaking the cars they've been stuck behind for 5 laps.
    2. Under FCY, the AI can occasionally ignore the no-overtaking rule for the player car and will push their way passed. They continue to obey the no-overtaking rule for other AIs though.
    3. This one is more subjective, but I feel they give up corners way to easy. Even if I'm on the outside and my front wheels are aligned with their rears, they yield. Perhaps I need to test this with more aggressive AI.
    4. The digital throttle on/off through corners.
     
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  11. MiguelVallejo

    MiguelVallejo Registered

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    Totally agree, also any touch against the ia makes you lose control of your car while they support any incident as if they weighed one hundred thousand tons
     
  12. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    Personally I understand that you are passing by a bug, it can happen.

    But I and many others are very worried about the lack of attention that S397 seems to bring to Offline.
     
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  13. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I wanted to point out one thing about the digital control of the throttle (on/off)
    I think that if the control of the throttle were analogic, it would increase a lot the amount of cpu used by the AI.
     
  14. Christopher Elliott

    Christopher Elliott Administrator Staff Member

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    Again, we have not gone away from 'offline', and any outstanding bugs we will look into. As you can see we are all working hard for sim fans....be that online, or offline ;)
     
  15. Steve Olden

    Steve Olden Registered

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    yet other sims can manage to do it..
     
  16. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    No, there's no reason it should do that. It would require some changes, but not necessarily much more demanding when done. The danger in speculating is you get responses like Steve's, which would make sense if what you said were true (and assuming it's not, his response becomes meaningless through no fault of his own), but in some people's minds the entire exchange will become another little brick in their subconscious wall of reasons rF2 isn't all it could be (or will never be any good).
     
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  17. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Come on guys I'm an advocate for ai racing but this is getting silly.

    Let's wait eh
     
  18. Pales

    Pales Registered

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    Respectfully, I would say that this has been the sentiment for a while now. Yet we have seen no changes; or a proposal on when this would come into place. The AI draft is single handily destroying the immersion of the game..
     
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  19. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

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    A bug that was missed 3 times.....I think it's pretty fair to assume the track was being tested online, therefore I think my request is pretty reasonable....Please test the AI before you release something, whether it's a car or a track.

    How many major AI bugs have been fixed during the past 2 years? Or mentioned as being worked on either here or in the roadmaps? None.
    So I think it's also clear that the focus right now is in multiplayer. Like I said, I understand that because I know it's something the game needs and will potentially bring new customers but it doesn't have to be at the expense of your even bigger offline base.
    We all know about the big improvements Reiza did in AMS AI so we know it can be done.
     
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  20. UsedMomo

    UsedMomo Registered

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    Over and over we see S397 post video clips and pictures of DLC in the rain. But the AI doesn't work in the rain, and the rain physics are divorced from reality. It's not merely an issue of not having puddles and hydroplaning modeled -- the grip levels on and off the racing line are reversed from what they should be.

    If S397 starts actually addressing these years-old issues then I'll be their biggest proponent. But I'm not giving them any more cash until that happens.
     
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