Please add random mechanical failures

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by Sigma7, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Sigma7

    Sigma7 Registered

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    Hello all,

    this post is in general already, but i post it again here (sorry for that) because no person responsible moved the thread in the wish list-category.

    First i have to say rF2 is a great sim. Driving feels very believable to me. One thing that bothers me a lot in all modern racing sims is that there aren't any random mechanical failures (i've never played iracing so i can't say how mech failures are implemented in this sim). I really can't understand why such a basic aspect of motor racing is missing in modern sims. I don't get that point.
    Before some whiners come along: make it optional and everybody will be happy. If you don't like it, turn it off. You could add another option: time scaled/normal/random. It can't be that difficult to program a random generator. The AI can suffer random failures and the fact the player can not makes racing a little boring and partly predictable.
    Back in the days F1 Racing Simulation, Racing Simulation 2 and the entire Grand Prix-series (to name but a few) had this feature and it was pure fun (for me). It is part of motor racing, period. Again, make it optional and there wouldn't be any problem. That would be like christmas to me. Despite that, great racing sim and it's nice that the development is going on. Thanks!

    Cheers,
    Sigma7

    Edit: i'm not talking about changing lifetimeVar and lifetimeAvg values. That's not the same.
     
  2. andrea_274

    andrea_274 Registered

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  3. Endurancer

    Endurancer Registered

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    +1

    Yet today I remember that, about 20 yrs ago, I was doing a 100% distance Monaco race in one of the Geoff Crammond GP games (GP3 I think), and my engine blew when I was leading, with 4 laps to go. Insane. I wanted to cry. But minutes later I was loving the fact a sim could do that. And all modern sims seems a bit silly for me because they lack this aspect.

    I understand why iRacing does not do that in official raes with all the iRating/ranking/competitive thing, but RF2 could certainly do that and make it opitional.
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I had the same in F1GP (GP1), full race, adjusted AI that meant I'd battled to get into 6th position (the last points paying spot in those days) and out of the tunnel on the last lap my engine died. I tried to roll home, but no good.

    For me that's the stuff that makes a sim a sim. See so many people these days, even in rF2, throwing their toys out of the cot if a server problem or connection issue on their end causes them to start from the back of the grid instead of their qualifying position. It's a 'technical issue', deal with it, move on, the challenge is a new one.

    People knocking you off the track, on the other hand... and I hate when I've done it myself for that reason.
     
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  5. Keidian

    Keidian Registered

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    You can edit your mod to have real life reliable engine lifetimes. It's what I do to all my F1 mods, check the real season, see how many mechanical failures a team had during the season then calculate the probability of failure and convert it into engine lifetime over the race time they usually drive (2h in F1)
     
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  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    You can, yes. But what Sigma7 is talking about is something different; not a wildly variable lifetime, but things just randomly failing. In fairly recent F1 a fresh engine could develop an issue only a few laps into its life (or race), but that might be the only failure all season apart from units that were known to be near the end of their life. To do that with the lifetimeavg and var is pretty much impossible.

    Of course this isn't just about engines; the more components that are simulated, in a fully realistic or not way internally, the more options you have for individual things to break or start to malfunction - stuck gears, sticking gears, broken gears, electronic options not working properly or just not being available at all anymore (including wheel display), etc.

    It would be a rare league or group that was full of people willing to have this sort of realism in a competition, so it could only be an option, but if you want to capture the heartbreak of real competition I think that has to be considered an important component. Of course we don't want to lose money when things break, so we can leave that out :)
     
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  7. Sigma7

    Sigma7 Registered

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    Exactly! In terms of iRacing, i think a mechanical failure shouldn't harm your rating, but they should really implement random failures for realism purposes ;-). I don't believe a real driver would be punished from the team for suffering engine or gearbox failure.

    Sign! You're absolutely right. I'm glad that there are more people who want to see random mechanical failures in the game. :)

    You're right. But my problem with this lifetimeVar and -Avg thing is, that you can only have an engine failure in the game. And what Lazza wrote above nailed the point. The AI on the other hand can suffer gearbox failures, clutch problems, electronics (at least in rF1 it was possible, didn't see it in rF2 so far) and maybe some more.
    There should be the possibility, that the player can suffer the exact same amount of different mechanical failures as the AI can.

    The simulations i mentioned in the opening post can do all that. There was no difference between the failures of the player car and the AI. F1 Racing Simulation for example had engine failures, gearbox, engine electronics, maybe throttle and brake problems (i can't remember exactly, but there were a few).
    And the Grand Prix-series has engine, gearbox, puncture, suspension, throttle- and brakeproblems, elektronics, oil leak, water leak (that failures i remember for sure) and maybe one or two more.
    Which of the cars fail during the race was determined by the sim before the race starts. You can test that. Start a race weekend, do qualifying and save after that. Now you start the race, and lets say you have a gearbox failure in lap 10. You can reload the saved game before the race and you will suffer the exact same failure at the exact same spot on the track on the exact same lap.
    That was an absolutely brilliant way how they implemented the random generator in my opinion.

    I would love to see it in rF2 where you can suffer the exact same amount of failures as the AI can and it is randomly determined before the race starts. In single- and multiplayer! The ultimate top notch solution would be a combination of random and driving-style related failures. There is a random chance that you can suffer one of the failures, but if you overreving (for example) your car, the engine can fail because of that and how it is actually implemented with normal and time scale failures. If i remember correctly, the older sims had only this random thing and lacked the driving-style-related failures.

    Anyway. I vote for another option normal, time scaled and random and for more failures. Only engine failure is not enough. If we talk about serious sim racing, we have to consider this aspects.

    Cheers,
    Sigma7
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  8. Endurancer

    Endurancer Registered

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    Oh my....

    Exactly. I still also remember when, about 20 yrs ago..... in GP3, Imola, my throttle got stuck at the downhill sector at the end of the track. Scary… but fantastic imersion.

    Nowadays, in endurance race, tyre punctures are such a common thing, and races are decided by that. Should happen in the more regarded sims.
     
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  9. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

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    While you can read in the big interview series on RD that more (advanced) damage is not an option atm (everything exept the UI is not an option atm :p) I would like to see this too.
    More random damage ? hell yeah!
     
  10. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    should we audit the drivers of the 24hr race at Le Mans if they wanted MORE things to go wrong? :)
     
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  11. Rujasu

    Rujasu Registered

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    Have you actually ever suffered a random failure in-game? As far as I know, the LifeTime values don't do anything to players.
     
  12. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    I'd take the water pump going pop over a disconnect to be honest :p
     
  13. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    You're crossing topics here. Lifetime definitely affects players, and if its variation is very high those failures can happen very early. But that's not the type of random being discussed.
     
  14. Bill Worrel

    Bill Worrel Registered

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    It's about $5 for a car in one of the GT3 packs. Just make it so that if you crash and destroy the car, you have to buy it again!

    What does that have to do with random mechanical failures, you ask... nothing, but you want more realism and that would be something they could add pretty quickly and increase S397's revenue. :D
     
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  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    And I thought iRacing was bad :p

    Way off topic, but lasting damage or enforced time-out after crashing would add so much to an online race meet. Of course you might need options to detect an innocent driver in a collision and reduce their time penalty, but still as a configurable parameter so if you're unlucky (or need to take it up with the offending driver afterwards) then that's pretty realistic too - if that's how the server is set ;)

    That's a realistic feeling, and rF2 is probably the most likely candidate to give it. It's so much more sim than chrome and multilayer paint jobs, but I get they're important too. I hope in 5 years iRacing isn't still the best option for 'real' racing.
     
  16. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    It's funny because in theory it's possible to do this since they use the item store to sell cars (you can make the item get consumed like other games that use it for this) :D
     
  17. Moe Faster

    Moe Faster Registered

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    ooo . . . a clutch or a transmission failure . . . maybe, just maybe a grinding tranny mod would slip into play . . . hey, I can dream
     
  18. Bill Worrel

    Bill Worrel Registered

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    Link to a boxing game - when someone takes you out on track, you can then deck them in the pits, virtually of course.
     
  19. SebS

    SebS Registered

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    That's a good idea.
    But maybe what could be even better instead of planning a random failure at the beginning of the race, would be to have a random weakness on the car.
    Let me explain it.
    Let's say the game have 10 possibility of failure. (Engine, electronic, brake, gear...)
    All those would have a % of failure randomly assigned to a driver at the beginning of the race.
    And depending on the way you drive your car. You increase those % of failure. If you reach 100% you get the problem.
    Of course nobody know those %.
    Means if you have a big failure % on the gearbox. If the guy drive the car very carefully he can still finish the race.
    I think it's a good way to mix average failure and the way people are using cars...
     
  20. felirrari

    felirrari Registered

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