PID.DLL Crash ... 64Bit... !!!!

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by Oscar1292, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. Oscar1292

    Oscar1292 Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hi... I have an issue that more of us AccuForce Wheel users face...and i really hope that you can
    make the suggested and tested changes that would help us users out..

    Please see the comments below:

    It is nothing to do with the SimXperience plugin or SimCommander. It is a timing issue caused by how rFactor 2 does a FFB reset on certain substandard USB ports while in 64bit mode. If you read way back in this post I have done heaps of testing on this.

    When you go in and out of the garage in rF2 it sends a FFB reset to the Accuforce. You can see it doing this if you turn on logging in rF2. Some motherboards have substandard USB controllers that cause this crash. It only happens one 64bit and only if you have a board with these substandard USB ports. They have a design flaw in them. Most Asus boards have these USB ports which cause this problem. My old Asus Sabertooth Z97 and my new Asus Maximus Hero VIII both have the same problem. Some USB controllers aren't built to the USB standards which is why they have this problem. It is possible that the USB controller manufactures could bring out a driver that fixes these issues but I doubt they are even aware of them.

    It is a hardware timing issue that these USB controllers don't like 1000MHz devices like the Accuforce. Back in my original testing I found that the solution was to install a PCI-e USB card and that has fixed it for countless people who have these substandard USB controllers, but because you can't add another PCI-e USB card then other than changing motherboard then you are a bit stuck.

    Because this only happens when a specific Reset FFB command is sent from rF2 they could potentially change the command which is being sent as a workaround.

    But basically it is a hardware timing error caused by a substandard USB port design and there is nothing we can do in software to fix it. You need to change the hardware causing the bug and in your case that is very hard to do.

    As for the 32bit vs 64bit, your logic is flawed. The bug is only present in the 64bit version and only in rF2 while in 64bit mode, many things are different between the 32bit and 64bit drivers so this bug must only be present in 64bit and just because other games are 64bit doesn't mean you can discount 64bit. It is not a fault with 64bit in general, just how rF2 resets the FFB while in 64bit mode. It is just a combination of three things, 64bit, the substandard USB controllers and the way rF2 resets the FFB. You change any one of those and it will work, which is why the PCI-e card fixes it, and why switching the 32bit fixes it. It is like the perfect storm, the PID.DLL crash only happens if ALL three criteria are meet.

    I have done heaps of testing on this bug back at the start of this thread and it has been debugged as much as we can. The problem you are having is the exact same issue as I have had with my 2 Asus boards, it is just the solution for you is harder because of your motherboard.

    The only real solution I can give you is switch to a different brand motherboard that doesn't have these substandard USB ports or live with 32bit for rF2 or

    This is where you come in:
    Contact the developer and see if they can change the FFB reset command.


    Taking into account that all the research has been done... any chance you can sort this issue?
    Thanks...

    Look forward to your reply,

    Rgds,
    Oscar
     
  2. Tr51

    Tr51 Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    5
    Hello,
    I have the same problem !!
    I have a motherboard : MSI X99A GODLIKE GAMING (Enthusiast GAMING motherboard ??) and incredibly has the problem with AccuForce with Sim Commander .
    If you do not use sim commander, rFactor2 functioning properly ... no PID.DLL Crash
    ... I'll try to do some tests in 32Bit with Sim Commander


    ps: I hope they are working on this problem
     
  3. Oscar1292

    Oscar1292 Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    3
    the same... here... :(
    All works fine in 32bit but as i fear that main developments will be focused on 64bit.. we would be forced to change the hardware just to keep up... and that's going to be an expensive job... new motherboard... extra usb card... new cpu... new watercoling .... new case...
    not something to take lightly...
    taking into account that people have been singling out the problem through extensive tests... i certainly would welcome for studio 397 to take our issues on board and to tackle this error...
     
  4. stonec

    stonec Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    1,444
    I guess 32bit is not a good long-term solution because rF2 in 32bit can only use about 3 GB RAM before it crashes due to the address space restrictions, so larger tracks with lots of AI cars end up not working. If the PCI-E USB card will 100% solve this, why isn't this a good interim solution? I understand it would be better to have this fixed, but very few people own an AccuForce wheel anyway, and the USB card is a very small investment above that.
     
  5. Tr51

    Tr51 Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    5
    I can not believe .....My PC is :
    msi X99 GodLike Gaming | i7 5930K | 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 | NVIDIA Titan X Pascal 12 GB G5X |EVGA SuperNOVA G2-1300Watt | Triple Benq144Hz@5760X1080| Windows10 Pro | AccuForce Pro| ClubSport Pedals V3 EU | Monkeydriver Gaming Tank | DSD Track Boss.
    .... and I think that I will not change for a long time any component ; I will make an attempt by adding a PCI USB.
    ..but this is ridiculous !!!
    among other things, the problem occurs only with rFactor2.

    ps: ) a msi X99 GodLike Gaming costs: EUR 498.99 in Italy
    ps2: My mechanical keyboard works to 1000 Hz polling rate
    my mouse idem and work well on both USB 2.0 and USB3 ... do not think is a bad USB controller problem.
    Without starting sim Commander, AccuForce Pro is rFactor2 work fine on 64Bit , ... it may be just a coincidence with my hardware ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  6. Oscar1292

    Oscar1292 Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    3
    I have a system that equally as mentioned by Tr51... capable of running any type of program.... as a simple solution being a USB card is certainly a valid option.... however i don't have a slot that allows me to add a card...
    so as mentioned earlier... i need to change my entire system... again.... !!!! So no.... i would really expect for Studio 397 to come up with a fix.
     
  7. Tr51

    Tr51 Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    5
    For now the problem I solved by installing a PCI-E
    Now everything works very well .

    ps: I have no patience I did not want to wait
     
  8. Redpxl

    Redpxl Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    21
    Thank you for this thread!
    I sadly gave up a while ago on rF2 as it was always crashing loading or leaving tracks. Came back testing DX11 but same thing again. Guess this could be my problem, Accuforce and Asus board with rFactor 2.
    I'll get a PCI-E USB card hoping it will fix this infuriating problem.
     
  9. traind

    traind Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    25
    Bump.

    I have the same issue. It only happens with RF2. Not every time when you go back to the garage but frequently enough to really interfere with the title. Any software fix for this?
     
  10. Redpxl

    Redpxl Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    21
    Just to confirm that a simple PCI-E USB card fixed that problem for me. Cheap and easy solution just wish i did it earlier, now i can enjoy rF2 again :)
     
  11. Brad Dawson

    Brad Dawson Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've been searching for this answer forever! Have an AccuForce and this problem and it's been driving me nuts! Press ESC, close eyes, and pray... Question is the same as Redpxl, PCI-E card fixes the issue for sure? Looks like it but just want to be sure before I purchases one. Don't think that there will be a software fix anytime soon regarding not sending the FFB reset so I'm hoping this works as rF2 is all I play... Thanks Again!!!
     
  12. Oscar1292

    Oscar1292 Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    3
    I actually was hoping to have some feedback form the tech / development team....
    any chance ??!!!!
    Cannot be that difficult....
    Thanks,
     
  13. Redpxl

    Redpxl Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    21
    Yes Brad it did fix the problem (at least with my set-up), I was trying every new software update hoping to have this fixed, until i saw this thread. Best 20$ spent in a while, a simple PCI-E USB 3.0 card.

    And as a bonus, my computer no longer hang on restarts with Accuforce on.

    And yeah would have been nice to have this corrected if possible, but as it only affect a specific set-up and probably not many people...
    Again thanks for this thread Oscar.
     
  14. Goanna

    Goanna Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    841
    I'm considering getting an AccuForce wheel, so was wondering what response you guys got from Asus (I'm assuming it's only Asus mb's that have this problem) about the sub standard usb controller issue.

    Cheers

    G
     
  15. Brad Dawson

    Brad Dawson Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sweet! That explains my hanging on restart problem as well... Ok I'll get one installed and report back. Thanks!
     
  16. Oscar1292

    Oscar1292 Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hi there,
    Just thought to give you all an update....
    Not fully understanding as to how or why... but it appears that since the latest release, the problem that i experienced in 64bit mode has been resolved or at least has not occurred during several hours of testing.
    I assume therefore that the developers have looked into the matter and found a solution for it.... for which I want to give them a big thumbs up.
    Much appreciated... Thanks!!! :)
     
  17. Brad Dawson

    Brad Dawson Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the update. Havent played much recently so when I updated Simxerience to version 4.1 in the release notes I noticed it says that they updated for USB ports not working correctly (not the correct wording... lol, couldn’t find release notes online). So it looks like the fix came from Simxperience. I’ve tested it out and voila, perfect! Thanks Bernie, saved me $30 in having to buy a USB card :)
     
  18. Brad Dawson

    Brad Dawson Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just read this... maybe a joint effort? Just glad it’s fixed! :) No longer have to hit ESC, close my eyes, say a prayer... etc...

    19/10/2017 Build ID : 2210405
    - Fixed: Sporadic crashes on ESC or in replay screen
     
  19. lagg

    lagg Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    3,042
    Likes Received:
    1,949
  20. Oscar1292

    Oscar1292 Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    3
    @Brad Dawson, i could not agree more...
    joint effort or done by Bernie, just extremely happy it doesn't crash... just in case.... :D !!! thanks to all involved.. :) !!!
    It has saved me a lot more than $30... as i would have to change MOB, Case .... the lot.. :confused:
    I am over the moon... !!!
    :)
     
    Brad Dawson likes this.

Share This Page