Pad vs wheel?

[PLAYLIFE]

I use a lot of throttle/brake modulation sometimes both at the same time to settle the car which obviously would be impossible on a pad. I don't have that kind of sensitivity in my thumbs but I'm sure over time you can gain it.

Pads, apart from the advantage of being able to apply steering angle much more quickly, also won't allow you to overlap your throttle/brake (problem every driver has even in F1, where they don't take their foot off the throttle quick enough when braking so for a small portion of time they are both being pressed). Again, amount of travel required to brake/accelerate is less so reactions can be faster - part of the reason why fighter aircraft have joystick controls.

 

[1959nikos]

Again, amount of travel required to brake/accelerate is less so reactions can be faster - part of the reason why fighter aircraft have joystick controls.

Maybe interesting to note, F-16 is fly-by-wire with a joystick at right hand of cockpit.
When the first models were tested, pilots complained from lack of ffb, so it was added artificially at end products.

 

[Gearjammer]

Modern fighter aircraft use joysticks to control the surfaces because the computer on board actually does all the flying. The pilot can control the craft within limits. Such limits can be changed in flight depending on the load out of the airframe. The F16 for example is only able to turn with a maximum of 5G's when carrying external fuel tanks, but if you jettison the tanks and throw a switch, the plane can do 8 or 9 G's.

Old fighter aircraft used a joystick mounted to the floor of the cockpit and had attaching cables because it made no sense to have a wheel which cost more to setup, than it did to have a stick which was pretty simple to setup and use. Modern fighter aircraft also have a hotas control on the left side which is used to control quite a bit of functions of the aircraft which would make using the right stick trickier if they were attached to it.

 

[Pluginz]

You gonna need weeks/months of practise to get used to the pad though Pluginz. Or at least that would be the case for me trying to figure out optimum settings and having to totaly adjust my driving style.

I had G27 issues and it needed to be fixed, as i was in a championship fight i took out my old Wingman wheel and my God what a difference. it was like using a MyFirstSony toy for toddlers, i did try but i could not get used to it (quick enough)
And then to think i actualy did well with that wheel back in the days....

Getting used to it is the hard part, after that any tool can be sufficient, even a Joystick lol. if you practise enough with it....


I'm not too convinced slick hardware will make that much difference though, if anything added smoothness can give a few tenths here and there but thats all i guess. its like the old days with 56k modems and playing quake, you just addapt to the lag and aim slighty off-center, boom headshot


But why are you going for a Pad when you have a wheel though?
There's a million ways to improve your racing but i'm not sure going from wheel to pad is an effective solution?

I agree that using a pad is maybe best when driving old model cars, even with a wheel i try to steer the car using throttle and breaking out the back, drifting through turns whilst keeping the power on, this is probably the best way when using a pad so it kinda brings the two together.

This was just an experiment really as tjc said lol, bit of fun
I just wanted to give it a try, sat on my sofa with a packet of crisps! But yeah wow its so damn hard to play with my gamepad, its almost impossible to control with steering input like. I havnt got a clue how peeps can do the same time as me around mid ohio with a pad!?! Id like to see some videos of it done. Im not saying I dont believe it like, just would be nice to see it in action.
I think I am best keeping the seriousness to rF2 upstairs with my wheel, with some more practise.

 

[Pluginz]

A bit off topic, but pertains to swapping hardware for helping laptimes. For me it was better than faffing around trying every last bit of setup, etc etc.
Best way I found to pull a bit more time off my laps was to brim the tank, and just drive until it ran out while being in control. Going say 90% of your max pace. Dont lock the tyres, dont slide, just drive and nail the apexes. In GTR2 could mean 2 odd hours, but I was determined to get a better laptime.
Then on the last lap, I would always just ramp it up a tiny bit, and that would most always be a much quicker lap than I had done before. Because you become so used to the car and the way it is driving at that moment, pushing that last lap was so easy and controllable. From then on, lapping faster and consistently would be much easier. Race pace goes up, qualifying confidence to push goes up too, obviously.
It's well known info, but yeah


And yeah...dont try a joystick...quick movements with the precision pro 2 I had tended to lift it off the desk, which would make me crash.
The worst was trying to drive an old 911 RSR, taily spinny bastards made worse by a floppy joystick. XD
And no, the RSR is not a bastard, I love it...

Thats exactly what ive tried to do over the years, perfect my setup, perhaps I have maxxed out? Then again, I dont actually play as much as I used to, but I still consider I can jump into most cars on rF2 and be pretty competetive. Practise practise practise. I will certainly look at the full tank of fuel and do some long stints. Hehe on mid ohio a few days ago, everybody had done about 25 laps each on practise and, I had done almost 50 lol.

 

[Pluginz]

I always felt that pad users and aliens just get into the zone and get really good and consistent with controller input and they aren't necessarily good drivers. I could practice and play something really quick on the piano and not know a damn thing about reading music or composition. Hard to explain. don't let the pad users bother you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

These damn pad users hehe. That was my initial experiment, using the pad, but i failed. I will stick to the wheel and not let these peeps bother me, your right!!!

 

[Pluginz]

I use a lot of throttle/brake modulation sometimes both at the same time to settle the car which obviously would be impossible on a pad. I don't have that kind of sensitivity in my thumbs but I'm sure over time you can gain it.

Pads, apart from the advantage of being able to apply steering angle much more quickly, also won't allow you to overlap your throttle/brake (problem every driver has even in F1, where they don't take their foot off the throttle quick enough when braking so for a small portion of time they are both being pressed). Again, amount of travel required to brake/accelerate is less so reactions can be faster - part of the reason why fighter aircraft have joystick controls.

I dont think I will ever be as fast on a pad, even with years and years of practise. I just cant seem to get a playable setup at the moment. Like you say the progression just isnt there, its just ON and OFF for steering and brakes lol.

 

[Pluginz]

Trying to reply to everybody on here is really difficult, so sorry if i miss anybody out, Im tryin my best. Thanks all you guys for the tips and tricks, great thread!!

 

[tjc]

This was just an experiment really as tjc said lol, bit of fun
I just wanted to give it a try, sat on my sofa with a packet of crisps! But yeah wow its so damn hard to play with my gamepad, its almost impossible to control with steering input like. I havnt got a clue how peeps can do the same time as me around mid ohio with a pad!?! Id like to see some videos of it done. Im not saying I dont believe it like, just would be nice to see it in action.
I think I am best keeping the seriousness to rF2 upstairs with my wheel, with some more practise.

And crisps...

 

[Pluginz]

hehe

 

[Johannes Kunkel]

Joining in on this discussion rather late, but just because people are able to drive a sim without a wheel doesn´t mean it´s not a sim.
There are drivers out there driving without any aids and beating the best in the world with a gamepad (For example Mikko Puumalainen who won the FSR World Series in 2009 on a gamepad)

Here is a comparison lap by him, wheel vs gamepad

 

[Denstjiro]

Thats exactly what ive tried to do over the years, perfect my setup, perhaps I have maxxed out? Then again, I dont actually play as much as I used to, but I still consider I can jump into most cars on rF2 and be pretty competetive. Practise practise practise. I will certainly look at the full tank of fuel and do some long stints. Hehe on mid ohio a few days ago, everybody had done about 25 laps each on practise and, I had done almost 50 lol.

Same for me, when i am actualy competative in our league it usualy means i have done 50% more practise laps then everyone else. and that brings me to a top5 usualy. but it comes with a huge amount of effort (i guess i'm just a slow learner lol)

And when i look at our Aliens, they jump into a car, fiddle abit with the settings, or just use default sometimes, and they are instantly faster then everyone else.
I HATE THEM SO MUCH!!




And one of them is even a pad user. go figure.
What strucks me though, and keep in mind we use old cars like F167/F171/GP79, how they use their backsides on-track, they are constantly braking out, having to catch their half-spins, burning their tires, etc.
So appart from the obvious - knowing the best lines/braking zones/exit speeds - they are complete mental cases when it become to driving, they are just pushing and pushing above and beyond and they allways seem out of control.

There was a famous F1 driver once whom said something like, if you still feel in controll, you are not going fast enough.

For me, thats not ment to be, i've tried their driving style, it doesnt suit me at all, i want to be smooth and enjoy the scenery
But one of those Aliens became my teammate and i've learned allot from him and the biggest lesson i've learned from him was to 'push harder'

Mind you, i win races, win championships, so pace-wise i am very competative, its just those few thenths in sectors and usualy 1 second overall vs 'them', and my teammate telling to 'just frigging push more you bastard' has realy helped me.
when it comes down to tenths here and there it is indeed, for me anways, those subte little things that make all the difference. the little extra push when you think you gonna spin but you actualy dont. learning to catch the car when you do. beeing in a constant state of panic, it realy helps


Btw, the piano comparisment doesnt realy fly imo, beeing quick on the piano doesn't mean you are still hitting all the right keys. so the outcome can still be a mess.
To be a fast pad-user (or any tool you use) you still first need to know what you are doing on-track. so they still have to be good drivers.
you can get the best custom made wheel for 50,000 but if you dont know what an ideal line is you will never be fast enough.