OT: Wheel Upgrade: What Should I Get? (Also a Brief History of My Sim Racing)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by William David Marsh, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. William David Marsh

    William David Marsh Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well now that I'm taking a look at things, and actually have been getting more money than I thought in the past two months of saving, I may go for the CSW. I sold my old bike yesterday, which brings my tally up to $375 saved, getting another $100 possibly today selling a guitar, and another $50 tomorrow from my dad. That'll bring me to about $525, and my mom may help chip in with the last $200, which would get me the CSW with both rims (I'd get both rims because I'm in a NASCAR league in iRacing, and it would be too weird doing a NASCAR race with the Formula Rim).

    I'm also factoring in that I'm using my cockpit as an all-purpose station. So that means when I'm not racing, I'm sitting in my cockpit doing whatever on my computer, so the T500's large base may be offputting for that. However, I could just pull off the CSW rim, and have a relatively unobstructed view of my monitor at least :)

    I'm definitely excited to see what happens in the next two weeks though.

    And my thoughts about the reliability at times is that everything has a legitimate chance of failure. Look on ISR forums, G25/27s, even ECCI and FREX fail.

    I've had issues with my Clubsport Pedals, but the majority are problems I may have to factor in my own stupidity in the matter. Fanatec was 2/3 times very prompt and quick to help me because I knew they would ask for photo/video of the problem, and I had the replacement parts within 3 days (except the third time, when it took a week and a half to respond, but they did apologize for the wait [at least my thing wasn't a fully broken set at the time or I would have been put off xD]). I guess I'm fortunate to live relatively close to the distribution center though


    Something I should also mention is that this is my cockpit: View attachment 10814 sorry for it being dark. It's a wood DIY rig, but it works well and is pretty sturdy. I may put a couple more uprights on it though to reinforce it a little further.

    One more question, about what percent stronger is the CSW FFB opposed to the G25?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2013
  2. Jerry Luis

    Jerry Luis Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    1
  3. Caterham_Super_7

    Caterham_Super_7 Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    1
  4. seancleric

    seancleric Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    The csw is stronger ffb for sure you may require some additional support etc but it may also be fine.

    I've found also worth mention that I cant race without the securing screw tight, with just the quick release alone I can feel slight movements when the ffb is moving back n forth so something to expect if you get 1. I don't think ill ever get the other bmw rim I tend to only race formula style but even if I drove something else I think id still stick with the formula rim, if you check some of the reviews the extra weight in the bmw rim and size actually slows the response time to slower than the g25/7 with the formula rim being lighter and smaller the speeds are about same as g25/7. Some people do still enjoy it though.

    Have you checked inside you base to see if you can see anything loose etc ? in the past id repaired my g27 a lot just by tightening a few screws that are used in the calibration of the wheel.


    The screws at 2m50s I have tightened a few times in the past and sometimes whn id had a look and tightened a few things inside the g27 would feel like a new wheel again for a while, probably worth a look. If your unsure how to take apart there will be guides on youtube aswell :cool:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    28
    Even with the Formula rim of a $700 wheel you are only just matching the reaction speeds of a G25/G27? These apparently "high end" wheels like the CSW and T500 seriously have issues if they can barely match a G25/G27 in response times. I'm a little bitter about the fact that my T500, and I guess CSW as well, don't beat a much lower priced G25/G27 in ALL areas of performance.
     
  6. Minibull

    Minibull Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    18
    Straight gears in a G25 vs a belt system in the Fanatec stuff? I'm guessing thats why the Logitech stuff is faster reacting. Just can't provide much force...which I'm sure is where the T500 and CSW are much better...plus I bet they don't rattle away like my good ol' G25 with no damping in rF2 XD
     
  7. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    28
    I know but still, with such a high amount of cost more for the T500 and CSW they should be quicker reacting than the G25/G27 even considering belt drive. The huge price difference should more than make up for this with quicker responding motors. If they were the same price I would accept it, but the huge difference in price should allow the parts to more than make up for the negatives of belt drive.
     
  8. seancleric

    seancleric Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ye I know what you mean Spinelli when I lookd at these times etc though it was at and near launch so I presume they may have even improved, on the response times etc the csw with formula rim is about the same. Obviously this is when using a lot more force so these forces have to be counteracted to the other direction which is also why it affects it as far as being faster than the g25 etc. So your extra money is going towards something that can be a lot more powerfull while also being just as fast as the g25 response times. If you watch this video go to around 16m35s you will see all wheels listed in a graph lets you clearly see the differences. It quite a difference in force and still being that fast I think its pretty good from fanatic well with formula rim, this helped me make decision not to get bmw rim etc also.
     
  9. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    28
    Thanks for the video :)

    It saddens me that although the T500 RS has a lot more power and torque than the G25, and as you can see on the graph more top speed, the initial reactions of direction change are much more sluggish. Having said that, I believe this was used with the old T500 driver/firmware running 125 hz, whereas the newer ones run 4x that rate at 500hz. I wonder what that exact test's graph would lool like with the current T500 driver/firmware??

    Very curious indeed.
     
  10. seancleric

    seancleric Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think its a program used with iracing ? I maybe wrong but some1 with the wheels and iracing can perhaps check.
     
  11. William David Marsh

    William David Marsh Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    1
    http://www.virtualr.net/thrustmaster-t500-rs-new-firmware-driver-available

    While the new driver version solves a problem with saving force effects in the control panel, the new firmware optimizes the self-calibration process and raises the latency to 500hz of the frame rate.

    This is a HUGE thing for me. I noticed in those graphs that the latency was a lot worse than the CSW, and that threw me off, and I thought it was still at that rate, but now I know it's at 500HZ now, it really makes me more comfortable with potentially getting the T500RS.

    So here are my two options I'm considering:

    A.
    T500RS ($350-ish Black Friday Special)
    Derek Speare Adapter ($40)
    Derek Speare Button Box ($100)
    Thrustmaster 458 GTE Rim ($120)
    Would bring me to about $650? (tax and shipping included?)

    B.
    Clubsport Wheel
    BMW Rim
    Formula Rim
    Would bring me to about $775? (tax and shipping included?)

    I think the T500RS may be better for me when I look at it like this.
     
  12. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Likes Received:
    23
    Out of interest William, why have you done a price comparison of the T500RS with essentially an identical second wheel rim (only it has non-static paddle shifters which is why i can understand the reason for buying it to replace the standard one permanently) to a CSW with two very different wheel rims?

    Surely you would only need the BMW rim for the CSW in this comparison if all your going for is the same kind of rim on the t500. This would mean you could replace the Formula rim costs with the Derek Speare Adapter & Button Box. Option B would probs still cost a little more but it's more of a fair comparison then.

    Unless the price you've quoted for option B is a non negotiable bundle deal?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2013
  13. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Likes Received:
    23
    Just putting this out there, anyone looking for a fanatec table mount i have one to sell. Only used for 4-5 months as i have a racing chair now. PM me if anyones interested.
     
  14. William David Marsh

    William David Marsh Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well it's a two-fold situation:

    First off, addressing your first instance, the two T500RS wheels AREN'T identical, the GT rim is 12" and the 458 GTE rim is 11", the same as the G25/27 rim. I'd use the GT rim maybe for NASCAR, the Ford GT, Chevy Corvette, and the road cars. I'd use the GTE Rim for Indycar, F1, HPD, Skip Barber, and other series that would utilize the smaller wheeler and/or paddles

    Second: The Fanatec Black Friday special is likely to be "Buy the CSW Base and BMW Rim, get the Formula Rim for Free!"
     
  15. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    28
    Ya the smaller and thicker feeling 458 gte rim probably feels really nice. The standard wheel is thin, not like a proper high performance car wheel/racecar wheel at all.

    The standard, bigger wheel with static paddles is totally cool for road cars and for rally cars as they use static paddles though so i find that really cool, and for cars that generally use bigger wheels like Nascar, old classic road cars or just about any road car for that matter, oh and even modern day GT3 cars oops ahem "GT1" cars, touring cars old and new, F1/GP cars and other cars from the 30s, 40s, 50s and part of the 60s i believe as well.

    Then the 458 rim for small open wheel cars like skippy type cars and maybe other formulas like f1600, f2000, and f3, Star Mazda? Formula Atlantics? Also 60s and 70s F1 and le mans prototype cars, maybe even up until and including 80s and early 90s F1? I'd have to research their sizes. Most open wheel and prototype style cars from the late 60s to late 80s or early 90s might go with the 458 gte wheel. Thats a lot of cars, but we'd have to research their sizes to see if they are closer to 12" or 11" in order to make sure.

    Then the modern day F1 wheel would go with most mid 90s and up F1 cars, modern day prototypes like audis, peaugeots, etc. modern DTM cars, mid 90s to late 2000s GT1 cars (like the top category cars in GTR/GTR2 for example) and probably more. I think even some track day cars/track day type road cars use this type of wheel. Don't forget other forms of more modern open wheel cars as well FR 3.5? GP2? F2? A1/Auto GP?

    One concern I have...The F1 rim, when you hold it with your hands it seems to me like your hands are just about the exact same distance apart as the standard 12" rim, so does that mean that other than the paddles and buttons the actual steering dynamics of it would almost be exactly the same as the standard rim and therefore almost pointless (other than the shifter paddles and extra buttons obviously)?....i'm really curious before I go out and buy one....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2013
  16. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ok, well as long as the difference between wheel rims is enough for you and your happy with it then that's all that matters. It is ultimately all cheaper so win priority #1.

    That is a good deal on the CSW package though if anyone is looking to buy one (perhaps ask william where to buy). Normal cost is $880 for that entire package, so a nice $105 saved.
     
  17. William David Marsh

    William David Marsh Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    1
    I was including shipping costs in the Fanatec Special. It would actually be $970 normal cost, so that's $195 savings!

    The special will be available after Thanksgiving on Fanatec's site, it usually goes from Friday to Monday.
     
  18. Miro

    Miro Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    105
  19. William David Marsh

    William David Marsh Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    1
    ^ if that wheel was coming out sooner, I'd definitely consider that, but I still have a limited budget now, and with my wheel being in the state it's in, I feel like I need to make a decision soon.
     
  20. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Likes Received:
    23
    I wouldn't wait if i were in your position either. Plenty of time before you decide on getting that one and you can always sell your current choice down the line.
     

Share This Page