Online is not good.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Valerio Kinex, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    The one fatal flaw of that idea is if a car is parked on a blind corner and you hit it because you can't react in time, and you end up being banned for something that wasn't your fault. Or if you had to slow down because of a wreck in front of you, and the guy behind hits you by accident, he gets banned even though it wasn't a malicious act.

    It is almost impossible to create a system that assigns blame. Every incident is different. Not to mention we all have different views as to who is to blame in a wreck. Be sure that it isn't always a black and white thing.
     
  2. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    It would be same for everyone still, quite quickly it would be possible to tell what is normal driver incident rate from those that are the problem, everyone will have accidents that can't be avoided, that is natural in sim racing, but when driver has accident in half of his races, then there must be something wrong within that driver.
     
  3. Eaglerapids

    Eaglerapids Registered

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    I still race in a GPL league because our community is so tight. The kiddies have long since gone and we now enjoy great racing.
    The biggest thing I would like to see in rFactor is shift-r. It's incredible the things GPL has always had right. To get better at a sim that is so wicked hard in the first place is a lot of practice and having to go back to the pits every time you pop a wheel off destroys the flow and if it happens in a race it's lights out without shift-r, invulnerability is a poor substitute imo. I would rather have guys stay in a race and be penalized with cold tires and fuel than see them all leave due to an accident. We still practice waiting for each other and going wheel to wheel and if an accident happens we wait while the guy shift-r and we're back at it again. That's how you learn to race versus hotlapping. I have seen awesome hotlappers who didn't have a clue how to race. True wreckers are a real pain but a lot of these guys just need to learn how to race and that takes time. And a will to learn.
     
  4. Cleverleyson

    Cleverleyson Registered

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    I played on a great server earlier this week, when the race session started you had to leave the pit and then goto the gird then goto formation. gave me a good idea that if all the servers were like this maybe the crashers wouldn't get around. But you would have to plan when to go and no leave when the rammers did.
     
  5. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    So far the only sim that has come close to a system of ranking the skill and safety of it's drivers is iRacing. And even that system isn't perfect. In order to have such a system ISI would have to take on the task of stat tracking, and users would have to be assigned ID's that would stay with them for the rest of their software licenses. I'm certainly not opposed to that, but I think it is impractical for rF2 considering what we payed for it.

    Believe me. I would love nothing more than to have a fool proof plan of ridding servers of blatantly bad drivers, but in a sim that costs as little as this one, it's not likely to happen. Leave the administration to the owners of the servers. It's the best way for this platform, IMO. Wreckers are going to be a problem regardless of any system put in place to stop them.
     
  6. Dave Millard

    Dave Millard Registered

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    The only fool proof plan would be live stewards on every server, which is never going to happen. If you join a open server you spin the wheel/roll the dice.
    Join a league.. race with the same people every week, you will learn how they drive and have fun. You can always race against AI.. at least they are predictable.;)
     
  7. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    This. This indeed.
     
  8. Christopher Snow

    Christopher Snow Registered

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    Object collisions right now are very much like they were back GPL...and that's a big part of the problem too, I think. I have only driven the 60s F1 cars myself, so my comments may no be applicable to the other two mods (or the other tracks), but the "billiard ball" effect is making things worse than they should be. There seems to be little or no energy absorbed by trackside objects like the haybales or posts, and the the hidden walls near trackside redirect objects back onto the track more than they should. For example, if you hit one of those fenceposts in real-life (a planted one), I believe it would end up OFF the track surface much more often than occurs here--the barbed wire fences that surround Spa are mostly composed of airspace, and even if were a post to hit wire, it would take a centered impact to redirect the post back onto the track in real-life. Most impacts would send it spinning, IMO.

    Seems to me something like that could be addressed by a adding an "object impact percentage" factor in the coding, as a sort of addendum to the live track concept.

    Nor does there seem to be any reduction of "energy" even in collisions where suspension and tires are torn off, or parts of the tub might be crushed, etc. It's quite true that these things would be hard to code, as general calculations about mass moving at speed (and crushability of objects) can be only be guessed at--no one is going to start crashing old F1 cars to build up a physics data base.

    At Spa, the haybales were used to improve driver safety (they were inexpensive and available), but right now they are causing far more accidents than they should too. Same reasons as above, I think.

    ----

    I have been pleased to see only one deliberate wrecker myself so far, so maybe it's far worse than I've realized out there, but perhaps this is because the older cars tend to attract the older drivers (who tire of the nonsense much sooner). There ARE quite a few people driving over their skill level, but that's going to happen with anything new--hopefully those who persevere will find the sweet spot sooner rather than later.

    Rule of thumb: If you can't complete an outlap at ANY speed, offline practice should really be your focus until you get squared away.

    But we all know what a tough sell an idea like that can be too^ :rolleyes:


    CS
     
  9. Allyc4t

    Allyc4t Registered

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    Seriously, no.. just no. Public racing has ALWAYS been as chaotic and accident prone, the rfactor netcode is the best in online racing but for you its not enough (The collision code is a bit flawed though).. but maybe you were in a server on the other side of the world? But to nearly double the price of the game will achieve NOTHING but have half as many people buy and play the game.

    Do as others have mentioned and join a league or join a server which has lower damage % or invulnrability allowed on
     
  10. coops

    coops Banned

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    theres your answer
     
  11. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    Plus add to the chaos a bunch of guys who are learning a new sim, not used to the dramatic drop off of tire grip after the last session and into this new session with cold tires and possibly a green track. Yeah it's chaos. I have yet to join a server and not get wiped out or at very least spun out. I have my share of spins getting used to this damn cold tire and green track thing. PLUS I'm getting re-acquainted with rFactor and learning rF2's unique odds and ends. +PLUS+ add frustrated drivers who aren't understanding why they are slow and inconsistent.

    Oh yeah, these are pubbies too.
     
  12. Andrew McP

    Andrew McP Registered

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    As iRacing discovered, this is not a hobby for serious professional drivers with more than their fair share of common sense. It is a hobby for talentless, over-enthusiastic wannabes like me. :)

    Online racing has always been and will always be a bear pit of random skills, and stroppy teenage emotions... whether we're actually teenagers or heading for the retirement home. Expecting anything better was always going to be somewhat optimistic.

    iRacing will probably remain the place to go if you want the best online racing experience outside of a league. But "best" is only relative. There is no perfect online system because there is no perfect human being... and I've always thought that those of us who cling to somewhat expensive and frustrating hobbies like this may well be less perfect than most. :)

    Personally I've always enjoyed racing AI more than people because I do this to relax, not get stressed among random strangers. So I'm just pleased that the AI in rF2 is very promising indeed.

    Edit: I'd like to see developers be brave enough to face up to this and add optional "balloon" racing where everyone is surrounded by a little forcefield which warns them about imminent contact well in advance. But such devices for cleaning up racing would not go down well with communities which pride themselves on how Hardcore they are. The choice technology gives us is between enjoyment and reality. We can't choose reality and then complain that it hurts. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2012
  13. RCRacing

    RCRacing Registered

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    Exactly what I do because never fails there will always be some dumb *&^ to ruin your race and his at the same time. Not sure why they do this.Anyone that sim races should know that you dont win in the first turn. I call you crashers out there morons and you know who you are.You wreck people time and time again.
     
  14. Valerio Kinex

    Valerio Kinex Registered

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    But the area of the ballon increase with the speed
     
  15. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    Just run servers with damage off

    sure you will get crashed allot on T1 and noobed at points in the race but with damage off a good driver can catch up and still win / enjoy racing.

    I am often punted on T1 but can come 1st or top 3 in 3-5 lap race so long as damage is set to off or low.

    also if servers are set up for sprint races its not an issue if you get punted off its only 5 min till you get to race again.

    Finaly you will always need admin on server or good server AI to kick people that go out of there way to crash , in RF2 I am mostly crashed by noobs rather than Wreckers.

    The physics in RF2 mean that when you are punted you can still recover the car and its not race over like RF1 ( at least in the megan)

    one basic rule that would fix T1 crashing is this
    Should you hit a car in the rear above x speed then you are auto pitted
    This would stop the biggest issue in public play which is t1/race start and cars not braking in time , it would also stop chain reaction as the first car to rear end someone would vanish before that car gave its energy to the car in-front.

    I would have it so this rule is only enabled for first 20 seconds of the race that way people are not penalized for genuine accidents down the line.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2012
  16. mrbungle83

    mrbungle83 Registered

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    Does anybody run a dedicated server on here? Because im assuming if anyone has gone through the effort of posting in here they are all like minded, pm me if you want me to set up a dedicated server and i will send you the password. I have had one running but literally no one has entered it it was a 30 lap server. I have purchased this because I thought GT5 was bad online but seriously this is much much worse and this surprises me. I can run a clean server regularly.

    I am very annoyed at this, i know its not ISI's fault but I can't grasp why someone would pay £60 to crash, I totally understand crashes are more likely than RL, as the field of view and danger levels are not replicated but racing the Megane’s is ridiculous.

    Very Mad feel like I wasted money and time so far.
     
  17. Valerio Kinex

    Valerio Kinex Registered

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    ISI do something
    We are customers
     
  18. Simon Steenstra

    Simon Steenstra Registered

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    It's not possible to implement some kind of rating? Or is the tracking too hard to implement properly?

    And for the crash-bans, It sounds like an okay idea, but you should give some warnings first.. Crashing accidentally into a car can happen if it's around a corner for example or the other one's crashed, or you crashed..
    But other than that, would be good if there's something done against it!
     
  19. Valerio Kinex

    Valerio Kinex Registered

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    Joining a league only partially solves the problem.

    This game is meant to be played online freely...what if my league pals are not there when i want to race?
    What if i wake up at 5 o morning in sunday?
    Why i must embeds limits to the people i want to compete?


    Moderators in server are not always there...but given the chance to impose a limit to the rank of the player that can join a server would be The Idea, since also battlefield 3 has ranked server...like
    Max level 35
    Max level 10
    Minimum level 100

    Or something




    To get to the point ranking should be based on those variables:

    Time spent online
    Laps finished
    Reputation section : how many races arrived 1°, 2°,3°.

    Average finishing place
    Number of crashes. yes.



    It means a simple stats tracking.
    We already pay for online this means we pay for a service. You can't play online if you don't pay, so just implement some sort of stats tracking that build one pilot reputation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2012
  20. isamu

    isamu Registered

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    This is *precisely* why I don't like leagues. They're good in theory, but in the practical world they don't always work in your favor.
     

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