OK, what has happened to rF2?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by davehenrie, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    These are things that are relatively new, but posted by users and apparently known to S397.
    GTE vs GT3 bop is incorrect.
    Endurance pack cars, the GTE and LMP2 at least, rev too quickly and bog down when attempting standing starts.
    My fps went from a smooth 105 - 120 ish to a solid jerky 70fps. (and this with only 5 AI) now tested at 5 S397/Rieza tracks and after double checking sync was disabled.
    Parts of the PBR Nissan GT 500 do not reflect headlights.
    Anyone else seeing all or part of these problems?
     
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  2. GoldenBear

    GoldenBear Registered

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    S397 has it's head firmly in the sand now and simply is leaving thing unfinished or not fixed. The very day this inertia bug was told to them, the fix should have started. Over 3 months later and S397 has the audacity to tinker with the skins of the GT500?! That is a full on insult to those who buy their DLC's. Good gawd S397, you obviously need someone to properly prioritise what gets worked on and when. I have all the issues you posted.

    ps...I find that all of S397 cars are frame suckers and very poorly optimized in the graphics department.
     
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  3. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Oh, rFactor2, i really, really love you my dear, but time for some tough love! :D

    Yup.
    Absolutely, yup.
    Fortunately for me, the performance is pretty decent on a 1080p screen with GTX 1060, Ryzen 1600 and 8 Gb RAM, i'm surprised by that, but it needed some tweaking.
    Dunno' exactly, but rear lights and brake disc glow are influenced by shadows, like mentioned in another thread, which is really, REALLY a basic thing, even GTR2 got right, back then :D
    Single makes are working quite well here (Porsche Cup for example), but mixing a whole WEC-like field, can make your PC pretty sweaty :D

    To add something:

    I've said it often enough now, so often, that it gets annoying and i really hope, they're taking a look into it,
    BUT ---> To archieve fast/more realistic realistic laptimes, you have to lower tyre pressures on the Porsche GT3 Cup car very dangerously. This is not only a known exploit in ISImotor sims, it's also not very realistic, that i can go straight 2-2:01 min. with 126-118 Kpa for a 20 minute sprint on Nürburgring GP, but if using pressures around 140-150 Kpa, the car is about TWO(!!) seconds slower per lap on this distance. Try it by yourself.
    I have posted a race video in both GT3 Cup threads, where i also was using these 126-118ish values and you can't see much overcooking of the tyres on contact temps, besides sloppy braking. Also the car is way smoother and precise. It just doesn't feel as crisp, of course.
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/porsche-gt3-cup.64160/page-8#post-1007122

    So, the quality assurance and testing has some issues to solve, i think. I don't want to tell somebody, how they have to do their jobs, not at all. I just discover so many things in longer use, that i have to ask myself sometimes, if they were really looking over a product, before release. ;) (i just say GT3 batch on a GTE cockpit element, which basically screamed copy&paste.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  4. Akela_DE

    Akela_DE Registered

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    126 ? thats to high ;)
    its not only the Cup where everybody use the lowest pressure. I suppose thats why we dont have a working ambient and track temp :D
     
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  5. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Just on the front, but lower at front tyres and the car just doesn't feel fun anymore...like i said, it isn't crisp anymore. You can see at the contact patch in the video, that indeed, the front doesn't load up quite well in mid braking territory, but my trail braking also isn't top notch yet, with this car (supercup kit). But i know ;)
    Correct. Also the M8 is way more drivable with lower pressures, than realistically safe. Also it has the loose rear after the BoP update, which can be somewhat adressed with that, but i still think it could be, because of this engine inertia issue. (revs are dropping hard, rears are underrotating slightly, you get a rear braking effect + tyre stress).
     
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  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Off the top of my head it's more likely the opposite - the lower inertia means the revs rise faster when you downshift, which gives more engine braking (engine braking is higher at higher revs). The engine braking itself is working mainly against the tyre grip, the engine inertia won't make too much difference in that respect (as far as how quickly the revs drop when in gear).


    On the thread as a whole, not really necessary, all these are already discussed in their own threads. Most regular visitors have seen those threads, I'm sure S397 is aware to varying degrees, and I'm sure they'll end up addressing where and when possible. I don't know if there's much to be gained by having another complaints session, if you think they're ignoring the threads already out there (and the complaints, many of which are justified, and are mostly even constructively written) they'll ignore this too.
     
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  7. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Yes, of course, this makes sense! But it isn't exactly clear how this bug totally "works". I get a lot of lift off oversteer, even without downshifting, if i'm using a more "reasonable" approach on a setup, therefore i have to be conservative af setting up the car, to keep it stable, which comes at cost for laptimes, so maybe there is more to the story, i don't know.^^
    Don't get me wrong, i absolutely know, that S397 should have the best intentions, there are many factors, why things happen, but the word but is coming :D
    GTE issues are known for 3 months now, the Aston dashboard fix also took a similar amount of time (a retexturing, c'mon), the GT500 has basic flaws with the new gfx system, that are basically mistakes, even mid-tier modders don't do...
    I get your point, but i can also understand the intention of this thread. The Nordschleife and other new content is the thing, that lifted rF2 to a new level of interest, now everything is getting worrying for some users, because there are so many flaws in quality assurance, that questioning the testing is just the expectable outcome.^^
     
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  8. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    And the good awful flickering in VR as the game starts is giving me headaches
     
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  9. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    We should ask for "open beta" or sorta :)
    Said very simple and clear, actual closed beta is missing a lot of physics and graphic bugs...they could reward the "lifetime subscribers" and made them part of beta program in order to improve the feedback/bug hunting...
     
  10. Raintyre

    Raintyre Registered

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    About tyre pressures, I think we don't need the full tyre model to be reworked. Just some parameters to help correcting the issues. For example, the recent 'WetTerrainEffect' parameters in realtime section were very helpful and effective for achieving more realistic tire temperatures depending on track conditions.

    I think it would be enough with enabling some simple tweakers for:
    -optimum pressure for grip
    -optimum pressure for minimum wear
    -tyre heating multiplier depending on (low) pressure
     
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  11. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I think I got worse performance at Nordschleife sine release, which wasn't great already, and I don't enjoy driving there, and I don't like it for many many many reasons which no one cares about sadly, so it may set a new standard which is lowered. Instead I have quality time at VIR Grand layout as substitute for Nords (and of course other good tracks that are available for rF2) and don't waste my time with Nords. I don't know who has worked on Nords, perhaps they are great creators, perhaps no - I don't know, all I know is that it is greatly underdone and it will certainly not going to get better, but I hope they will prove me wrong.

    Cars also leaves a lot to wonder about.

    Software improvements in last 12 months also leaves me wondering.

    The big for parts interview with Marcel as well as some talk and drive sessions before at Racedepartment has covered a lot of core goals, but with years and years of work solely on UI, I can't grip to believing on these things happening, unless they are actually happening in the background which we don't know about, and everything is just waiting to fall into places magically from our point of reference.

    So yeah, I do wonder too, what is going on with rF2 ? It is a colossal mess. Maybe it gets much better, maybe it doesn't. I just stopped expecting anything truly great.
     
  12. Thepharcyde

    Thepharcyde Registered

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    Loading times seem to be up on what they were?
     
  13. Akela_DE

    Akela_DE Registered

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    What the f... ? Are we not in Beta anymore ? :D:p
     
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  14. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    The only two reasons why I am not looking for an alternative to rF2 is that IMO Physics are superior to all other simulations and that 100% S397 Car content is the most realistic IMO of all simulations.

    Really rF2 has not stopped disappointing me for the last 3 years.

    In particular on the priorisation of S397 priorities (no priority for physics + performance, etc...).
     
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  15. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    The collapse of my fps co-incided with the release of the latest additions to the Nurburgring/GT500 R. Prior to that, I was quite happy with 30 + cars and fps over 100 almost all the time. Now? It's almost like the actual fps counter is broken. I get the same 3 numbers every time I check it, at wildly different tracks and with large variations in the number of AI. Reducing the number of AI makes absolutely no difference.
    It is almost as if, we went back to that first summer when they were making fps improvements two or three times a week and lost all of those gains.
     
  16. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    I dont think it will get any better. RF2 is what it is. They say they are about 30 ppl and claim that about half of them are coders. So roughly 15 ppl have been working non-stop day in day out for 3 years on a new UI and competition system. That naturally leaves high expectations, but lets see what they deliver (and when) I doubt it will be any good to be honest. Why? Because what we are seeing is content with completely obvious flaws which gets released anyway. Many flaws are small and easily fixed but it doesnt happen. Sadly that means that S397 simply dont see it as important that what they sell is flawless or as close to flawless as possible. So imo the problem is that their standards are not high enough - they dont see it as a problem what many of their users see as a problem.
     
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  17. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I would like it better then for sure, just for sake of more realism. But I guess it just doesn't go with the bristles model, otherwise it would be really strange why in all these years it hasn't been done.

    I have not much understanding what is going on. And I have had little clue what I am looking at when I have opened a ttool a few times. But I guess there is something lacking big time in the way contact pressure throughout thread is calculated. Perhaps it doesn't even calculate that, maybe it only calculates if bristle is in contact and amount of its friction due to slip levels ?

    The fact that there are no optimum pressure parameters shows that current model should work out correct optimum pressure dynamically for given tire loads and so on, rather than just using some fake general value. But of course it doesn't because then low pressure should overload edges of the contact patch and unload the center of contact patch, which is not happening. So lower pressure apparently always gives more contact and doesn't seem to have contact pressure variation. My other guess is that the geometrical stiffness of sidewalls is not simulated correctly, so they doesn't work right mechanically as tire pressure drops or tire becomes overloaded. Perhaps they go outwards producing tension in the thread, when they should roll inwards producing a compression in the thread when tire is underinflated.

    Here is nothing ground braking but just a quick find from google.
    [​IMG]

    I would just blindly guess that there is no contact pressure calculation in rF2, so only contact patch size is simulated, thus lower pressure means more contact patch, and more grip as a result. When in reality the amount of pressure to surface at the contact patch is apparently the most important thing.

    I can't think why rF2 wouldn't have that with brush model and this many bristles. Perhaps the calculations becomes significantly heavier and then goodbye to 2400 Hz ? Anyway, isn't 2400Hz an overkill ? Wouldn't 1200 Hz already be insane ? Just to illustrate: 360km/h is 100m/s, that would make a calculation of tire for each 41.6 millimeters of travel calculated at 2400Hz frequency.... How is that practical ?
     
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  18. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    It still disappointing and angers me to read threads like this. But not at the writer at s397. Will rf2 ever change!

    I haven't sim raced for weeks now Not only cos I have a bad back but I'm just losing interest in the genre as a whole. Hopefully ams2 will change that but honestly I'm not sure it will be groundbreaking. With I'm ure the same ai issues and weather issues.

    I dunno maybe I'm getting fucking old and more moany lol

    Maybe I'm growing out of games.

    But they should open a beta to a few of us here especially the dudes in the know .. I'm not claiming to be one of them. But I thin k it's about time rf2 cannot be this clumsy in this day and age.

    And this ui no disrespect to the hard work put in but I've honestly lost interest in it. Just been far too long for something that won't change rf2 that much.

    Anyway...

    Nearly Xmas lads.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  19. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    They're designed for rolling starts, rather than standing.
     
  20. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    granted, but pitstops? There is no climb in rpm. Just toggled. Instead of a curve up through the powerband, we get zero to max at the barest hint of a full throttle application.
     
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