Oculus Rift over 100k DevKits sold -is ISI going to support with rf2 integration ??

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Adrianstealth, Jan 21, 2013.

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  1. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Guys, if you would like to see what the size of each pixel will look like through the commercially completed version of the oculus rift (said that it will use a 1080p screen) then try this out:


    1) If you have a 1080p monitor, download this image:

    [​IMG]


    2) Open it full-screen on your monitor with Windows photo viewer (ask if you don't know how) like this:

    [​IMG]

    3) Measure the width/horizontal dimension of the in-game image with a measuring tape (or something else if you don't have one).

    4) Plug your width measurement into the following equation to find how far back you should be when viewing the image:

    5) Place you eye (and best to close the other) at the calculated distance. The size of the pixels you see should be the same as you would see through a 1080p oculus rift. :D

    Remember the measurement units for width must be the same for distance! :p ...just-in-case
    Equation is calculated base on a 110 degree FOV in the diagonal with an 8:9 aspect ratio image.


    edit:

    Although some might be thinking that the pixels are big, i don't think it will be a terrible quality when everything is in motion and in 3D. Another thing, having a single screen of 1920x1080 split in two for each eye, means the total render performance would be the same as no 3D on a single 1080p display.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2013
  2. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    No email. Just letting you know.
     
  3. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Thanks for letting me know Tim, maybe Jo at Oculus will send you an email tomorrow I'll chase if not

    Copy of her reply below:


    Hi Adrian,

    Thanks for reaching out! I haven't seen any emails from them. I'll go ahead and send Tim an email today.

    Cheers,
    Joe
     
  4. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    ;)
     
  5. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    I can see individual pixels from that distance and resolution is basically my only concern about Oculus. However it has lenses so that it's not like staring your display from 15 centimeters away but more like 10 meters away (can't remember said distance accurately). Display panels are going to improve in the future; higher resolutions, slower response times, etc. so it's just a matter of time and let's hope we don't have to wait many years anymore and affordable HMDs are going to be realism in the very near future.
     
  6. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    That is one thing with OR, people *should* not get sick because now your in game sight and head/eye position are connected. That was problem with earlier VR systems where head position was not in line what you saw in game. That made some people nauseous.
     
  7. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Registered

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    Looks interesting to say the least.

    I wouldn't preorder this developer kit tho. Low res and only 2 games to use it in. The consumer version will have more features, better res and overall design, also will probably cost less.
     
  8. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    lmao


    ;)
     
  9. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Really, 10 meters away? I thought that having the display be perceived close to the eye was best for a 3D VR gaming headset so that the 3D world is all represented inside the display (as if peering through a window out into the world, whilst standing at the window) to avoid any 3D artifacting. This can be unconfortable if an object protrudes out the screen and into (any of the 4) sides. This was why Crytek chose to adopt a native "through a window" style 3D solution for Crysis 2 and the closest a 3D object can appear to your face/eyes was on the surface of the screen with no popping out 3D.

    I don't have Nvidia 3D Vision so i can't comment on how games today look like on 3D however, I used to have a pair of proper 3D shutter glasses that were made by a 3rd party company with co-operation with Nvidia for software compatibility on a CRT monitor almost 10 years ago and i remember playing Ghost Recon and that game had amazing 3D compatibility out of the box (not all games worked well in 3D and seems to still hold true today...weird). I remember how utterly impressive it was to see/feel the rifle be physically in front of you in full depth 3D that made me countless times try to grab a hold of it, lol. The scope on the rifle was always represented to seem at the depth of the monitors screen and the butt of the riffle would stick out all the way over my keyboard and to the right side of my face/shoulder (IT WAS SO FREAKING COOOOOL!). But there was a slightly unpleasant 3d clipping/artifacting issue when I looked down the riffle butt (i.e. down towards my keyboard direction, not further down the barrel) to where my eyes would meet the edge of the monitor screen. This occurred because of the sudden change in depth between the edge of the monitor screen (that was actually further forward in 3D space) than the butt of the riffle (seemly next to my face in 3D space). It really messed with my eyes if you looked at or around this edge which was a bit of a distraction.

    The solution was to bring the screen right up in your face (and vica versa) and to calibrate the 3D depth in software so that the closest a 3D object could appear was at the the surface of the screen. This way there was no screen edge clipping/artifacting since all 3D was now contained within/inside the display whilst still achieving the same level of 3D depth perception with the world and with the riffle butt appearing next to my face. Downside was that you had to keep your face ultra close to the screen or else the riffle butt would not be next to you face but stay at the depth of the screen surface. Having to be so close to keep this illusion did have it's positive affect thought by massively inflating the effect FOV with my face only a few inches away. However the pixel density was totally ruined! So at the time, i just lived with the edge artifacting and objects protruding out the screen at the time.


    edit:

    I found the 3d glasses i used at the time and they were so wow at the time and probably still now if i went back to my parents to try them again. Called E-D Wireless 3D Glasses for the PC.

    http://www.edimensional.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=28


    edit 2:

    Sorry i went off on a sort of tagent there...lol

    Back on track...

    So yeah, if the display is optically set so that they still appear close to your eyes to avoid the issues above and still have awesome 3D effect, i don't think this will hurt your eyes because your eye's won't actually be focusing on an object that's (say) only an inch away from you face. The 3D game images will fool your eyes into aligning their direction and lens focus to the far distance and only close up if you have something like the butt of a riffle next to your face in-game.


    edit 3:

    I badly desire a 1080p(+) Oculus Rift! LOL
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2013
  10. Butch Nackley

    Butch Nackley Registered

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    Yes and no, for me. First, a controller is in your hands and you become perfectly adapted to where every button is, because it is always in your hand.
    The same is true in shooters. I use the Nostromo for them, but my hand never leaves it, so I know where my keys are under my fingers by feel. So for them, I would probably love the Oculus. There would be no problem with controls for me in them. But trying to find the right key on it in rF2 by simply reaching over and hitting particular keys would not work without actually seeing it. Maybe not focus completely on the thing, but glace at it and and hit the key I need. No way to do that blindly while trying to drive at the same time. Seeing the Nostromo or the Shifter (or joystick/throttles) buttons really is a must for me.

    I am not against support for it. I just do not believe I would ever use the Oculus in it, other than to check out it's effect, even if I owned one now. But as I write this,,,, my mind is wondering about Voice Command for functions in rF2/FSX/RoF, etc. That is a possibility that would make Oculus much more 'useable' for me.

    Another option would be to have a a Nostromo mounted on my wheel (which I used to use years ago). But that was on a 270* MOMO Force. On a G25 with lots of rotation, it isn't as sweet. But even then, I had to glace at the thing for many commands. Brake bias, menu up/down, etc were easy to use, but hitting the right key on it required a look to make sure I was selecting the key I needed.

    Here is a shot of it. Taken years ago with a 3 pixel per yard camera, lol
     
  11. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    i didnt think the oculus had 3d capability?
     
  12. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Butch, although i can appreciate people use a load of extra keys and frequently for various extra levels of simulation, if it were me in any of their positions I would sacrifice them for the sake of having a quality 3D VR headset. The sense of en-heightened realism from them would seriously outweigh the need/want for any extra keys/buttons outside of those already on my wheel. Even if i HAD to revert back to my G25 with only 2 buttons or in fact any wheel without any buttons at all, I would still be using the Oculus.

    What do you mean?
     
  13. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    My understanding is, that if the FOV is high enough (FOV > 80°) there is no problem with objects pop out from the screen at borders, because the borders are outside of the human stereoscopic vision.

    [​IMG]


    From this source:
    http://www.leepvr.com/sid1992.php: see chapter 3.1. How Wide is Wide? — the Stereo Window
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2013
  14. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    The oculus is 3d, (I wouldn't be interested if it wasn't) I currently use nvidia 3d vision surround, I never switch back to 2d now,

    I'm happy with my nvidia 3d setup the 3d is great, however I recently tried the new version of the Sony 3d headset & the 3d blew me away! It's very natural as each eye has its own uninterrupted image -the Sony headset however is aimed at movie watching and is of in the same market as the oculus but the natural 3d effect should be the same.

    I've pre-ordered the devkit ( for $300 it's cheap for the technology in it ) just in case the improved consumer version take longer than expected, obviously as I only sim race & use arma2 I'm hoping for some early support.
     
  15. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I am surprised, i thought it would have been not as great as you've rated it. How is it with only 45 degree fov? Same experience as if you were using your monitors with glasses in the same effective fov? And did the 3D still have sufficient popping out of the screen to achieve in your face depth even with though designed to appear 4-5 feet away when watching/playing a 2D video/game?
     
  16. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Hiya Drripper

    I wouldn't buy the Sony headset as it would be no good for sims/gaming, its for movies & they've done it pretty well
    (I'm referring to the very latest Sony headset -not their older model which I tried & was pretty terrible) it seems as though you are sitting in a movie theatre looking at a large screen, of course you also see a black border around the screen but strangly the effect of being in the cinema in the dark works well, the 3d is the best I've seen -it's not at all over imposing but I guess it's the way it works (same method as the oculus will work) each eye seeing the same image from slightly different angle as in real life.

    I wouldn't buy the Sony headset though (I can just watch a movie on my iPad whilst traveling etc) I don't really think it'll be a big seller for them especially at around $1400, the oculus on the other hand :

    no black border around image / full head tracking / same 3d method as Sony (very natural) / incredibly well priced (to saturate the market no doubt )

    although a decent FOV is needed, it less important than with conventional fixed displays (monitors) as you would simply move your head round as in the real world etc

    P.s I've not tried the oculus , only watched the various YouTube vids & read available info, I have high hopes but we shall see,
    Could be April untill it shows up )-:
     
  17. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    This is from Oculus website FAQ:

    Can't remember where I read that 10 meters (actually it was 30 feets) but anyhow it seems to be fact that with Oculus your eyes are focused in the distance all the time.
     
  18. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    Regarding FOV, this is very interesting, quoting this article again: http://www.leepvr.com/sid1992.php (annot.: when FOV>80° there is no stereo window)

    "But for Virtual Reality, the difference is critical. When there is a stereo window there is no ignoring the fact: either you are looking through some sort of window onto the world, or the world has a distant frame around it. Neither of these effects is natural. Neither of these permits what NASA has aptly called the "feeling of immersion in a virtual world". Briefly put, if there is a stereo window, the observer is on the outside looking in. Only when the field of view is so wide that the stereo window vanishes, can the observer rightfully consider himself or herself on the inside of the world looking out and around. The angular field of view required to eliminate the windows is about 80 degrees, so any system that provides a field of view less than 80 degrees, in particular any system with an eye lens whose diameter is much less than about twice the distance from the lens to the center of the eyeball, is going to show a stereo window. Such a system fails in a critical way to qualify as immersive virtual reality."
     
  19. Butch Nackley

    Butch Nackley Registered

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    That I won't sacrifice the things I need. I like long races, changing weather, fuel stops, etc. So, I need to be able to control my pit commands, as well of car functions (brake bias, boost, etc). I couldn't do this without keys at the moment. But, like I said, Voice Commands would probably do for most things.

    And a flight sim is out of the question, other than a short little hop to see what it looks like. Just too much to have to do. Nearly impossible to do blind to the equipment. It could be done, but it would be a touchy-feely kinda thing trying to make sure you are getting the key/button you need.

    Some people would simplify things for the sake of using it. I wouldn't because system management is part of the fun of simualtions, to me anyway. While a VR would be cool, it just wouldn't suit me. A dome one sits in with the image displayed all around would be super. I would still have my cockpit and VR at the same time. It will come, don't know when, but it will come.

    But yeah, if rF does get support, that is great.
    I still may get one for shooters sometime. I'll have to try one before I buy it though. I think they will probably bet set up in some stores for demo soon, most likely.
     
  20. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    Same understanding here too. It's easy to test by just closing your other eye or put hand in front. If you're looking with your left eye then your nose is blocking the view to the right. Borders at left and right cannot be seen by both eyes simultaneously.

    Surely ISI will model different nose profiles to choose from; nordic, african, asian, etc. Think I'd pick alien nose (superior stereoscopic vision).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2013
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