Now THIS is a great summary of OUR user experience

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kevin Karas, Jul 6, 2021.

  1. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    I mean, the stuff they did were really needed. Now that the graphics are acceptable, they are slowly shifting towards other important things. If they don't do what you want, doesn't mean that their priorities are bad, it just means they aren't the same
     
  2. Kevin Karas

    Kevin Karas Registered

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    I agree the HUD for example is not a high priority (for nearly 10 years now), but they also said physics is not a priority and I never heard a thing about really improving UI user experience. The only thing I can see is eSports and CS, while the rest (except physics/FFB) is years behind the competitors. I mean it IS been spoken about all around the community not only here. Look at the numbers: rF2´s average player count per day is around 500!..... 500! All around the world! Constantly decreasing this year
    upload_2021-9-30_11-6-5.png

    While this thread has over 13.000 views in the last 3 months. That should actually be very alarming to the devs
     
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  3. Maarten Nauta

    Maarten Nauta Registered

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    The priorities of S397 might not be "wrong" for S397 (well its debatable... but who knows maybe focus on esports got them that Alonso company deal) but they are not the priorities of the playerbase. That makes these CS blogs and to a lesser extent the roadmaps so jarring to read. I also dont understand why someone like Paul Jeffrey cannot do some more honest/2 way communication. Its all this "tune everything negative out" kind of approach.

    On the HUD and the UI they did actually try to overhaul both but the results are not great. HUD was a couple of years ago.
     
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  4. MotherDawg

    MotherDawg Registered

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    Ermin... I feel your pain man... "rFactor 2's physics broken something to that effect made me very popular with the community"

    Some people, when they see other telling it like it is, if it ruffles their feathers, you get shed loads... even if it's spot on:

    "for you to actually make money as a business there's a user experience you need to make it easy to buy, you need to make people understand what they're getting and then, you need to make sure that it drives right at that pinnacle that you're promising them... the tires...
    the tires... they need to be fixed"

    Thank you Ermin.

    Oh I yearn the days of ISI. :(

    P. -S. but I like editing config files!
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  5. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Ermin ain't here man.
     
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  6. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    Just the other day, i was said to: "Kelju, since you are hardcore rfactor fan...."
    At first i laughed, but then i realized, that i have lost so many sim racing friends to other sims and some have just stopped racing altogether after quitting rF2.
    In their eyes i AM a true rfactor2 fan!
    Just because i'm still here. And still play the game.
    Realizing that, i also realized that same goes for everyone here. EVERYONE.
    No matter if you are a "fanboy" or more critical fan of the game. Everyone still playing, and participating discussions in this forum is a true fan of the game. Everyone else have left.

    So considering that, it's no wonder that sometimes emotions get the better of us.
    Reason we are all still here, is that we have belief in this simulation, and it's possibilities.
    We see the potential this game has "if only they would do things as i would like" :D
    I think that is propably the biggest reason most of us still hang on. We have dreams of how this game could be the best of all, if done right (right in our minds that is).

    Everybody who gets in to sim racing these days, will get into a crowd or community larger than just one game. That community plays or have played most of the sims available. That's where the word of mouth information gets in to the new simmers out there.

    That word of mouth information has to get more positive for this game (to succeed).
    What we say in here, doesn't really matter. What we say in the community larger than this game does.
    That's were the true potential is to get more sales.
    If we race in another game or participate that part of the community, and this game comes up, what we say in that situation matters so much more than what we say here.
    We all know what the positives are, and that's what we always bring up in that conversation. But that list is getting shorter as other sims progress, and it already sounds like a broken record. It's not enough to convince more people to get in. We need to be able to say: "this and that is not an issue anymore". Or "this and that has gotten better". "There are actually more players nowdays" etc.

    There seems to be failure to communicate between the fans of this game and S397.
    It seems that S397 devs blindly trust that when their vision of this game comes true, the above mentioned word of mouth changes it's tone, and everything will be good.
    That will not happen if the current user base is not catered to satisfying level aswell. We need the stuff that we believe is important too, to have a say in that word of mouth reputation.
    So even tough it might seem that our visions are selfish, treating them only as such is not gonna work. No matter how well the S397 vision will come true.

    If this was a marriage (between the devs and users), some serious marriage counseling would be needed.

    Could we achieve that on our own????
    I hope everybody here, users and devs alike will think about that.

    Thanks
    Kel
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  7. Kevin Karas

    Kevin Karas Registered

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    Amen
     
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  8. Binny

    Binny Registered

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    as a user and seeing the steam charts on rf2 it seems a marriage councilor would be useless, users are talking with their feet and walking away or having a break I'm having 1 and at the moment have no idea how long it could be or if it will end up in divorce.
     
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  9. FS7

    FS7 Registered

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    After the last game update rF2 stopped working for me. I had to delete the userdata folder and reconfigure every single thing all over again, rF2 redownloaded workshop content I had already unsubscribed, it took me a very long time to get things working again.

    Every single time I play rF2 I have to run the rF2 graphics configuration first to make sure everything is correct (rF2 has this odd habit of changing my resolution and refresh rate for no reason). Today I tried playing the game after a few weeks, I ran the graphics config, it had the wrong resolution & refresh rate selected, I changed to the correct settings (1080p60fps) then started the game. Things looked fine, I picked FR3.5 & Silverstone GT, a combo I've run many times before. It took forever to load the track even though I'm sure I had run this combo after deleting the userdata folder and reconfiguring everything. Loaded my setup, tried to drive out of the garage, the game was running like crap, choppy framerate. I quit back to the main menu, checked the in-game graphics settings, even though I had set to 1080p60fps in the launcher before starting the game when I checked the in-game settings it was set to 24fps. I changed it to 60fps, confirmed it, tried the same FR3.5/Silverstone combo again, it took forever to load then the game crashed. I checked all settings in the launcher again, loaded the game, checked the in-game graphics settings again, then loaded the same car/track combo again, after a long loading time I was finally able to drive a few laps.

    I game should not be this difficult to set and run properly. I have rF2 installed on a SSD and it took me 15 minutes from the time I first launched the game until I was able to get on the track and drive a few laps, this is totally unacceptable imo. I have a bunch of other games that run fine and only needed to be setup once. rF2 needs some major work in terms of optimization, I have owned rF2 since late 2016, I've had to reconfigure and fix things a bunch of times over the years, every time I try to play the game it takes me a very long time adjusting settings before I can finally get on the track and drive some laps.
     
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  10. Kevin Karas

    Kevin Karas Registered

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    Yep! At least there is some sort of new tiremodel in newer cars, but not yet implemented into the popular cars
     
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  11. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Well, this is fantastic lol

    I hope rF2 won't get totally put on hold soon, because clearly having other projects with Motorsports Games, such as upcoming Nascar game is equal to having more "Grand Tour" game situations. It is never going to be ideal for us, rF2 fans.
     
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  12. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I had a somewhat similar experience. I normally drive in the FULLSCREEN mode at 1080p. (which is 19x10 if I recall) My screen is capable of 1440p (25x14?) I choose the lower rez for in-game fps improvements. I recently used the window'd option instead of fullscreen and the video kept reverting to the 1440p setting. Even after changing the rez with the config tool & ingame, the option would bounce right back to 25x14. I reverted to Fullscreen and the changes took and were saved properly.
    I just don't have any experience with the two window options instead of fullscreen so I can't say if that is normal behavior or not.
     
  13. U. Daniel

    U. Daniel Registered

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    If you use windowed mode, you have to use the same resolution as Windows
     
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  14. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    IIRC you can change the resolution launching the rFConfig.exe located in the ModDev folder
     
  15. K Juliot

    K Juliot Registered

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    I've been using RFactor since 2007, bought into RF2 when you could first get it as a beta so I think I have a good perspective on it. I have to totally agree with the original video. To me RF2 has never changed from being a beta because the core functionality of the sim has never been made a solid platform to add new shiny content on to, instead we get new content and changes added to a beta. A lot of the new stuff is not what anyone was asking for, did anyone really want Formula E? The beginning of the end for me was the new years in the making UI that in the first 10 minutes of using it I found numerous issues or frustrating functionality. They actually made the UI worse to use, but it did look modern because that is important, not!

    I have raced in a RF league since 2007 and about the time that video came out is when we walked away from RF2 due to frustration of using it and Studio397's lack of direction in fixing the core functionality. We are using iRacing and me doing some RaceRoom which I enjoy. If RF2 ever gets actually fixed we will probably use it again.
     
  16. Kevin Karas

    Kevin Karas Registered

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  17. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    The thing is, this thread is at page 14 now and some of the stuff would have required a task force long time ago allready. I will give credit where credit is due as some of the complaints have been worked on and fixed, like the slow response of the UI and the loading times that have improved quite alot with the latest RC. But, there is also a wierd tendency in how game breaking bugs - and the AI pitting after L1 when it starts raining or FCY not working at all - have a lower priority than other minor cosmetical stuff. This hasn't anything to do with how I want to have my personal toy first, but that the basic functionality of the sim is offered. There are two features that were advertized for rF2 right from the beginning: safety cars and rain. And guess what, both don't work without using workarounds and the new rain shaders for the windscreen are totaly useless if people ragequit after lap 1 to witness them. The videos of such bugs are getting more and more frequent and I can just hope that it is a wake up call, so that the sim get's improved across the board in the near future and not just in big chunks in one single area at a time. There is stuff in the latest blog that just makes me shake my head once again and it's no surpise that the Steam reviews are dropping more and more.

    There is also a wierd tendency to neglect development in areas that are genre standard by now (propper h-pattern support, FFB-meters for the HUD so that people can adjust their wheel and identify clipping easily, dark mode for the UI or even just a straight forward UI). If you consider how long the new UI has been in development and that the most frequent complaint is how bad the UI is, it's no good sign. It doesn't take a marketing degree to go to the steam reviews, show only the negative ones (and even the positive ones) and filter the most urgent issues. One thing I can tell you allready: the visual quality of the clouds or the rain dropletts on the windscreen is not in there. And then you read that there is no need to work on the HUD as there are 3rd-party solutions while people have issues setting up their controlls. Seriously? o_O
     
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  18. Kevin Karas

    Kevin Karas Registered

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    Thats the purpose of this thread. Its kind of the last resort for us to build up pressure before literally leaving the platform. But they dont care that people are leaving the platform or not even starting to stay in the first place. eSports and new games for MSG (console eg.) just bring more money.
    But as much as I understand that money is a crucial thing for a company its like being a german car manufacturer that sells its cars only in Dubai, because they can charge more there and not even selling it to locals in EU.
     
  19. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    I don't understand how they (S397) can just sweep these kind of videos under the rug!!!?
    These videos are the how consumers view products and services nowdays. I have said this before here.
    The millenials (and after) are not patient kind of customers. And i don't mean that with anything negative. But that's just how they are.
    They are used to have things that work, and when they don't, they get replaced rather quickly. Sometimes even prematurely, without much investigation why something stopped working, or started acting out, but that's how it is.
    Their attitude is: "it aint my freaking job to start investigate why it stopped working, or why it just doesn't work the way it was said to. F*** that. Im replacing it with something that does work!"

    That guys reaction in that twich video is EXACTLY how every one in his generation reacts to that sort of experience.

    I have a friend in that age group, that i've known now for about 10 years. And i can tell you that he would have reacted exactly the same way. Actually worse, but thats beside the point i'm trying to make here.
    If his new phone have any issues, it gets replaced right away. It doesn't matter if it was just a bad firmware update, that would be fixed in next one. No. Thats too long time to wait for something to work as it should. And that brand needs to have something very special in the future model, to be ever bought again by him. And i know he's not one of a kind in his gen. I have met his friends too. That's how they are as consumers.
    They have much higher credit debts on average than our generation, and they are not that bothered on taking a hit financially if they ditch something they just bought, for another that satisfy them better.
    This generation wont accept failures as consumer as much as generations before them.

    My fathers generation would have said that they are spoiled brads or what not.
    My generation mostly thinks that maybe they could have little more patience, and not make such hasty judgements when something doesn't work right away, or have some issue.

    Videos of the kind that have been posted on this thread as an example, are freakin torpedos!!!
    How many can one ship take? Seriously?

    What we talk here is relevant to us only. We are happy with much less. We are here already.
    That doesn't mean that we have infinite patience, but us leaving, still is not the main threat to the existence of this game.
    We are getting fewer, yeah, but slowly. Some are just taking a brake.
    I have said that we need something too, to keep this relationship going.
    But.
    These torpedos.... You just cant afford to have this kind of publicity out there in this day and age.
    Bigger ships have sunken for less.
     
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  20. Kevin Karas

    Kevin Karas Registered

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