Nordschliefe too smooth?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by doddynco, Oct 4, 2021.

  1. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    624
    Is it just me or the Nords way smoother than before the shader update?
     
  2. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2020
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    170
    Can't quite see how the shader update could possibly have an impact on the smoothness of a circuit.
     
  3. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    624
    There were performance optimisations too. Does any one have the original so I can compare?
     
  4. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    481
    Yes i have the 1.78, I use it sometimes....
     
  5. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes Received:
    3,488
    I can't wait to launch rF2 again, hopefully soon. I'll definitely test this. I don't believe it could have been changed, it would also require massive update for whole mesh. Also why ? They have made superior surface to all other simulations, like S397 does with all their tracks. Other studios just uses laserscaning as marketing trick and then don't aim to maintain proper macro detailing of road characteristics, S397 seems to be only studio which actually keeps the proper detailing of the scan.

    The most likely source of perceived differences of road characteristics can come from vehicle physics. There are cars that are very fast and very stiff with small suspension travel, they will feel rough, and there are much slower and much softer with lots of suspension travel cars that will drive perfectly smoothly over same road.
     
  6. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    415
    I agree to a large extent however, I believe some of the most extreme bumps (surface scans) have to filtered / smoothed to some extent. Developers have to account for individual personal comfort levels in regard to surface bumps. Unfortunately, I think that often leads to some tracks being overly smooth in many cases (not necessarily S397 surface meshes though).
     
  7. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    481
    so it's the same the old 1.78 ?
     
  8. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    624
    Haven't had chance to test this yet as I'm currently moving house so have no wheel.

    I will have an answer hopefully in a few weeks.
     
  9. stonec

    stonec Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    No, I don't think they are smoothing out bumps. That would go completely against the idea of laser scanning the track. Sebring is a good example of how bumpy a track can be and I certainly don't believe they took any shortcuts there. It also takes a long time to work through a track mesh the size of Nordschleife, so any attempt at smoothing it post-release would require a big effort.

    The only setting I am aware of that allows smoothing programmatically is the TDF var HATFilterMaxOffset. This basically smooths out harsh edges in a difficult to describe way. I had a look and it's set to 0.0015, which I think is 1.5 millimeters, so it wouldn't do much if any smoothing at such a small value.
     
  10. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    481
    that has been modified is only the grainy road effect, it's lower now, that's maybe your smoother feeling.
     
  11. Mitch9

    Mitch9 Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    169
    Every laser scan has noise that introduces artificial bumps even with ground level scans, so it has to be either filtered out or smoothed out
    Don´t quote me on this but I think they actually smoothed sebring out in an update because people were complaining about it being too harsh, which is crazy to me, but hey... (still feels pretty rough to me though)

    Otherwise, maybe they dialed down the graininess of the track after the update like you guys said, to better resemble the track after a resurface. The nordschleife is resurfaced pretty often so it wouldn´t be entirely out of place to make it smoother in game as well.

    TBH I havent actually noticed any change, but that´s just because the track is unplayable for me unless I setup graphics at the lowest values.
     
  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,369
    Likes Received:
    5,241
    @Mitch9 and on the other side of the coin, one of the F-E tracks had bumps added to it, because they had smoothed the data too much - thinking it was noise.

    No process (or simulation) is perfect. But marketing always works.
     
  13. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    750
    Likes Received:
    306
    ??? It’s just not true. Are you saying track mesh in iRacing , ACC and AC is significantly inferior to rF2? I remember someone saying Sebring is not that accurate long time ago.
     
  14. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes Received:
    3,488
    Decide it yourself. If you find it not so obvious, then that is exact reason why the studios do this. And it counts to physics, graphics, sounds, everything, if most people in consumer market, and communities can't tell a difference between high level and medium level of realism, then it makes sense not to produce at high level. Believe it or not, often people even prefer medium level over high level if it means experience becoms smoother - such as tracks become smoother, cars physics become less edgy... It just is so. It is amazing that there are still devs around who are willing to do things honestly and pushing to as high level as possible. Because there are studios which are exploiting the fact (people not being all an experts) to their advantage- producing stuff cheaper, faster and focusing on other stuff like gameplay, design, marketing. On the other hand some developers just simply can't afford, or does not have underlying simulation strong enough to go really really high, best example IMO is Assetto Corsa, it is not that high... but it is extremely likeable. And I have driven AC Nords a ton, at many places it is super different, much less detailed even in major undulations, which wouldn't even require very dense mesh.

    For example: dip at 1:20 where P1 falls in and then smashes on bumps significantly, it doesn't happen in AC. I should revisit it, haven't played for quite a long time. But I think about this at least once a month since AC released Nords lol
     
  15. Mitch9

    Mitch9 Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    169
    Ah yeah, the berlin track. I agree laser scaning is a marketing tool but some people seem to underestimate the advantages of using lidar as a base to build a track on top of, or just don´t know what you get and don´t get out of lidar.
    I wonder if the initial smoothness of that track also had something to do with the surface of that airport. I didn´t buy that track until after they updated it so can´t tell if the change was more in the overall graininess or they really left out some larger bumps here and there. Like mantas said, there´s only so much detail you can take advantage of.
     

Share This Page