No LAN without Pay-To-Play???

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PCG-Smee, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. PCG-Smee

    PCG-Smee Registered

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    No, read your own license notes on the original release. It isn't saying, "if your buddies have additional licenses, THEY can install THEIR copies on THEIR machines . . . "

    What it says (and it was discussed in the old forum, with ISI) is you can install it on another computer in your home. One of the HDRW members wanted to be able to play on the LAN in his home with his son. The question was asked, and ISI's response was that such use would be acceptable.

    Personally, I didn't take that route as it is a bit underhanded in my opinion. I simply quoted the original email sent from trymedia. That is why I have purchased three licenses . . . so I could have two games. You know, with the refusal to honor the activations promise and all.
     
  2. PCG-Smee

    PCG-Smee Registered

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    Honesty (I think that's what you meant). Great word. An even better way of life.

    So, can you HONESTLY answer the two questions I asked? I mean, yeah, I know you offer a "lifetime" (which actually can land in court unless you explicitly explain YOUR meaning of lifetime in the license agreement) subscription. My lifetime? Your lifetime? The game's lifetime? If the game's lifetime, how long is that in years? We know it isn't forever.

    Now back to the questions. I'll try restating them as one question, a bit more to the point:

    WHY must I go through matchmaker to play on MY LAN or to play IP to IP with a friend in New Mexico?
     
  3. Lars Strijdonck

    Lars Strijdonck Registered

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    Thank you ISI for reactivating my rF1 license for the 100.000 time because louzy me cant keep a record of stuff. ;) geez some of you need te read up before buying something or ranting.

    Best customer support ive ever seen. Period
     
  4. liebestod

    liebestod Registered

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    The OP is a crazy person.
     
  5. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    Because that's the way ISI set it up, that's why. Frankly, I hope ISI doesn't even bother explaining the "why" to you. It's their software. Don't like it, don't buy it. It's so simple I am having a hard time understanding why you don't get it. There are times when the customer isn't right. ISI won't say that but I will, and this is one of those times.

    We all get it. You don't want to have to pay extra for LAN or IP to IP. Well, too damn bad. Move on man. Just move on.

    @liebestod - yes, crazy indeed.
     
  6. PCG-Smee

    PCG-Smee Registered

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    Discredit, obfuscate, accuse.

    Gee thanks folks.

    It is a legitimate question, but instead the sheeple will just go along with it.

    @Libstod . . . Hmmmmm Could be, provided you remember it takes one to know one. Sorry, I know it's childish, but so was the dis.

    @Lars . . . Glad they honored their word for you. I'm still waiting on my 6th reactivation on my first purchase despite repeated requests. Hope they continue to keep their word to you.

    @Brabham . . . You know, if there was a legitimate reason, I can't understand why it has to remain such a secret. I know the answer, but ISI is lying about it and you guys are helping muddy the water for them. The LAN and IP to IP options requiring connection to ISI's servers has naught to do with gaming.

    Now, Tim, please answer the question HONESTLY.
     
  7. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    The real question is, "Would you believe him if he answered your question honestly?" Personally I doubt it. You've already made up your mind.
     
  8. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Because it is programmed and priced that way. Why must you not accept that as an answer? We're so overwhelmed with 'greed' that I've been telling you NOT to purchase. Your next challenge should be to ask Apple why you can only install Mac OS on Apple products.

    I'll say it one more time: If you don't like it, don't purchase.

    Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
     
  9. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    He answered it himself when he brought up copy protection. But he didn't listen when I said that, so his requests for honestly are clearly rhetorical. We're doing our own copy protection, and have chosen to protect our software. As I said above, take it or leave it. And we ARE greedy enough to NOT take his money.
     
  10. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    Terms are pretty clear - you either choose option with subscription or you pay more and are set for life.

    ISI simply cannot be held responsible for people who are either too lazy or to hasty to read and understand basic information about purchase options.

    And as for the "principles" and other talk - welcome to capitalism :) Someone makes an offer and you either take it or not. In this particular case I dare to say it's a good offer for reasonable money (and I mean both available options).
     
  11. PCG-Smee

    PCG-Smee Registered

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    Well, ISI & Tim, the fact is this charge is not for online play --- although you are restricting online play if not paid.

    If the online play was a big problem, you would not have supported it all of these 4+ years that I have been playing.

    You have a legitimate reason for the charge, but to disguise it as a "pay to play online" deal is not becoming. It isn't honest. It won't improve online gaming by providing better servers, but it will improve online play by removing something.

    Someone else on this thread came pretty close, I'll leave it to you folks who have called me crazy to figure it out.

    Have fun sheeple. Maybe I'll see you folks on the track.
     
  12. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    Thank you for proving my point. You were given an answer, copy protection, and you still think ISI is lying.

    So now the ball is in your court my friend. Please prove, with verifiable evidence, what you think ISI is really doing. Until you can do that, your rantings are unfounded.
     
  13. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    Disguise? As far as I recall, Gjon openly stated that this subscription is to cover further development costs.
    Of course you have to enforce such payment on users somehow - be it by restricting game acces or by limiting it's functionality. Limiting funcionality by removing online play seems a reasonable choice.

    So this is no disguise - it's just a mechanism to make these yearly payments actually worth something to the users, while not preventing them from using the product they paid for completely if they don't pay subscription.


    If you still think this isn't "honest" - what would be "honest" then?
    If supscription is "honestly" for further development, then you should have no access to updates if you don't pay it, right? No supscription = no updates. This way it wouldn't be a disguise, right?
    The problem is, you end up with something even worse this way - without updates you cannot play online anyway, because of software version mismatch.

    Would you really prefer this kind of "honesty"? I wouldn't.


    Come on guys - all those complains are getting a bit ridiculous :)

    Next thing I see will be probably people complaining they have been "tricked" or "cheated" if price of rFactor2 drops by 10 cents after 3 months ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2012
  14. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    Because if they allow that it will undermine their whole content protection system, especially the IP to IP part. Even enabling just LAN to be played for free would make people all over the world be able to circumvent the system. While you yourself are probably a law abiding citizen, many others are not. ISI has a right to protect their work.
     
  15. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    I think you have done a legitimate question. I don´t understand very well (because my english isn´t good) but i hate when people starts to think because one company made some good product they have right to do whatever they want with costumers.
    If you ask WHY, answers like "because we said so" or "because we want, accept or leave it" it´s not acceptable answers at least for a company who claims to associate his name with the words "community" and "open". All we here buy a beta version of good software because know and trust what the company made in past and with opinions, pointing bugs, suggesting implements on software. At least as loyal costumers and helping to develop their software people like you deserves more respect from who speak in name of ISI.
    All people kissing ISI ass without trying to understand the point of view of one legitimate client with legitimate question, stop being company bitches, fanboys or what **** name people call it on internet. All costumers will have benefits when someone have reasonable doubts and, again, is treated with respect. Today is happen to him, tomorrow could be you and must will be very frustrating when you fight for you rights as costumer and people witch is benefit with your actions is against you.
     
  16. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    None of us here are kissing ISI's butt. He was given a reasonable response to his legitimate question but found the answer to be unacceptable. His problem, not ISI's. His rights as a consumer of rF2 have been outlined quite clearly. If he doesn't agree, he can choose not to buy. Simple.

    Having spent years in customer service, I can tell you from my experience that there are a small percentage of people that are unreasonable, and no matter how much you might try to give them good service they are still going to be dissatisfied. PCG-Smee falls into that group.
     
  17. AlanBernardo

    AlanBernardo Registered

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    It appears that a number of people have chimed in here to say they've had numerous re-activations without the slightest problem. But you say otherwise. HONESTLY, whom are we to believe?

    I think maybe ISI has kind of gotten under your skin, for some particular reason. As such, you come with these outlandish statements and backwards truths, trying to create controversy where there is none.

    If you want (referring to another thread) to check to see if ISI checks validation when you want to play offline, is there a reason why you can't just check it yourself, by disabling your internet connection? NO, there is none, quite HONESTLY. You really don't want to check yourself because then you'll discover that what you've been ranting about has been totally false.

    Alan
     
  18. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    You should know that no matter how honest the company is, mistakes happen. Why are people assuming that the guy is lying (on the activations issues of the RF1) and acting as if they were lawyers ISI is a mystery to me.

    He made a valid question: why he cannot play on a private network with two legal copies of the software with no cost to ISI and not infringe any legal content?
    If a company responds that this is their policy, pay double or go buy the competitor's software and NOT explaining why the hell he cannot use legal content in the way wich not affect the company rights or the quality of the online services that them provides....
    You may find that this is a reasonable response. Personally, I think cocky and stupid since this is not cheap, it´s a beta software and, at least i like to think, all people here are helping to develop the final product sending constant feedbacks.
     
  19. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    True.

    ISI has set the game up to require a subscription for all multiplayer racing. It is part of their copy protection. I have to imagine that it is ISI's way to prevent hackers from hacking the LAN side of the game, in order to bypass the subscription. Again it's their software. They do what they want with it. We decide whether or not we want to use it.

    They answered his questions. What more can they do? How detailed do they need to get in order to satisfy his demands as a potential customer? Even if they fully laid out their reasons, I doubt they are going to change the policy. And the original poster would still feel the same way.
     
  20. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    Sorry, but i didn´believe thats is possible. Maybe slow things, but will happen. And until this happen, we pay the bill for security of their software with lowers rights in legal content. Probably hackers will gave to us what ISI is cutting of.
     

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