No LAN without Pay-To-Play???

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PCG-Smee, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I have to say I haven't seen much of that, and as you've just registered, maybe neither have you, perhaps because you weren't here seeing it? These people all debated everything long and hard, as did ISI.

    You also seem to think ISI is a part of some evil empire, please do some research on ISI as a company, or even any of it's history involving the community. ISI shouldn't be held responsible either for you not knowing about activations and the like, I didn't work for ISI back then, and even I knew about that (I only ever used two). Did you even try to contact ISI when you got to five activations? If you had, you'd have been given more... It DID carry on unless the activations happened on different IPs and then it's a little weird for the same person to need to do that... It's a little strange to be judging a company so harshly when the interaction you'd have seems so minimal...

    In any case... If you purchase, and then can't accept what you've got for your money, ask for a refund. Make a decision and if rF2 isn't what you want, please find something else which fits the budget and requirements you have (just like everything else in life whether it's groceries or a new car).

    The truth? Either buy the product or don't. The product is what it is, is priced what it is. If you don't like that, you do have a choice you can make which involved not paying anything. Don't buy it. You can't blame someone else for that.
     
  2. Ruben Miranda

    Ruben Miranda Registered

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    PCG Wrote:
    Actually if I remember right
    One of ISI reasons for doing this was because of the fact that there was a lot of people getting a ripped copy and being able to use it for free and intern losing a lot of money. So this is how they resolved that issue well one of the ways.
    I am sure some hacker out there will come out with a way but for now (I hope) it is working.
    To me it is a great reason to lock it down and not get ripped.
    Another thing the extra 13 buck a year is for server access Don't remember the exact reason but the fact is that ISI is not really putting money in there pocket. And even if they are there a buisness not a charity and have no obligation to give you or anyone anything unless they chose to.
    Bottom line to like it don't by it.

    Ruben M.
     
  3. Guineapiggy

    Guineapiggy Registered

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    That refund deal is unfortunate but hey, these things happen. As for deception - where? It's made very clear on this forum what you'll be getting for your money and why. Seriously, what deception?
     
  4. AlanBernardo

    AlanBernardo Registered

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    So what you're saying is that ISI will keep its profits, do nothing with the game, and let it fester and die? No matter how successful their games are, no matter how much profit they make, they are just going to take it and run, instead of maybe plowing some cash into improving their game, which in turn means more profit.

    Such utter cynicism borders more on a naive outlook than what I think is likely to happen. You think that since some companies act this way it follows that all companies do.

    Does everything last forever? No, everything eventually fades and dies out and people move on, active servers or no active servers.

    EA is not ISI and to compare the two and assume one is going to act like the other is faulty reasoning. I hardly ever bought and EA title, because I knew they had a bad reputation. ISI shows no signs of being such a company.

    The same goes with Codemasters. I never trusted that company and never will. EA and Codemasters may run similar outfits, but I don't put ISI in that company. Again, to think that all companies are out to stiff their customers is silly and totally wrong-headed.

    Either you're lying outright here or else you think something is true when it isn't, or are purposely withholding some essential information. I must have re-activated rFactor ten times at least, over the years, and never had one single problem.

    Nope, you're wrong. As mentioned above, activations were always freely handed out to me, and I suspect they were also to everyone else. Except you.

    I guess in the end you're pretty sour. You're desire also has been colored by the cynical belief that everyone acts the same. Take the profits and run, instead of improve, take more profits, improve, take more profits-- that's a warped (and illogical) way of looking at things.

    You're bring this up in your own mind. Let me repeat or summarize. First, companies are not all alike. Just because one company does things one way does not automatically mean that all other companies do the same thing. Second, Codemasters and EA, collectively, are nothing like ISI. ISI has been known to work on improving their products: EA and Codemasters typically release a game, bugs and all, and then move on to releasing next year's game, adding some silly component, repackaging, and selling at full price.

    Do you see similar trends with ISI? No, you do not. REALLY now, you REALLY don't. Maybe it all comes down to envy, envy because someone is making money (honestly, and with customers' concerns at heart) and you are not.


    Alan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2012
  5. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I'm guessing he wants us to say we're greedy and that's why we're charging indirectly for LAN multiplayer. He probably doesn't know that rFactor 2 had no LAN at one point to be charged for, or that it was the community feedback which made it exist - at all.

    I guess if it would make him happier he can pretend it still doesn't exist and not use it, but rFactor 2 will still cost him the same if he wants to play it at all, LAN or not.
     
  6. [NAR]Steve

    [NAR]Steve Registered

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    Sheesh, just ask for a refund, and quit whining, ok? ISI is in it for the long haul, and went above and beyond on supporting RF1. You act like they are asking for your life savings for Rf2, even if you get the lifetime membership, it's still a bargain....
     
  7. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    Ahh...they did.

    Up front they said...here is how it is, this is what you have to do.

    Than people complained and they introduced the lifetime fee (of which I think was WAY too cheap and thought $120+ would not have been unacceptable, at that price I would have just gone the yearly subscription though).

    I wasnt lied to, I knew what was happening, I kind of figured it out. As for activations..I can tell you I did MANY of them. All I did was read the trymedia stuff and within 24 hours EVERY time have the registrations done.

    Suggestion, before reading BETWEEN the lines...how about just reading first....might save you some hassles.
     
  8. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    Lets not forget ISI's credibility in the sim community. Without them we wouldn't have most of the sim games we've been playing for the last few years. Hardly a "grab the money and run" type of company.
     
  9. PCG-Smee

    PCG-Smee Registered

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    Wow. Thought I was a bit dramatic . . . evil empire? No, just not being totally honest.

    My purchase date for the first copy was September 1, 2007. I still have the original email printed out . . . it is on my desk at this moment. Need a copy?

    What changed . . . ??? Well, my email address and my IP did change, because I moved. The old email was colbertc@seark.net.

    Did you know that there are actually quite a few folks who move each year? Actually, in the U.S., about 1 in 6 people move to a new location each year. That probably means that their IP addy changes as well so that isn't a good way to qualify whether one is scamming you or not. And email addresses? They oftentimes change as well.

    If you had read the link, you would have noticed the date of March 2011, and my name without the team tag. Why? Because I did not remember the password when I decided to start this thread.

    I contacted ISI through the email and was told I could not receive another activation. That was back in 2008. My second purchase was on August 13, 2008 with the same email I have listed in my account. Check it out.

    My other purchase was from a friend who no longer used the game. I personally removed the copy on his computer when it was in my shop for repairs. That was when I purchased the third copy (for my daughter), so for that one there is no record.

    The post in March of this year was not the first time I had tried to obtain more activations from ISI. The original posts evidently do not exist because the old forum was either abandoned or deleted. During the summer of 2008 I made SEVERAL requests for new activations before making the second purchase, but was still using the old email address in my correspondence. The requests were denied.
     
  10. PCG-Smee

    PCG-Smee Registered

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    Man, I hope you folks are right and no one else gets screwed out of even ONE activation.

    As for me, I LOVE BEING CALLED A LIAR . . . especially since I have proof that I am not.

    Naive? No, realistic. Naive is accepting what you are told at face value. If I did that, I would have been dead long before there was an ISI.

    @ Steve: I haven't spent the money . . . yet (read the first post in the thread). If it requires a subscription for LAN play, it won't happen.

    Well, a LAN game does not use any of your resources. An IP to IP game does not use any of your resources. I understand that the game does have LAN, I also understand that a subscription to use my equipment is kinda crappy. No LEGITIMATE reason to require an annual subscription to use my resources.

    But, I'll be nice about it . . .

    Can you please explain why you would require me to pay an annual subscription to play two legally purchased copies of a game over a Local Area Network consisting of equipment I own?

    Or perhaps you can explain why you would require me to pay an annual subscription to play my legally purchased copy of rfactor 2 with a friend in New Mexico who has purchased a legal copy of rfactor 2 on a direct IP to IP connection?

    Then again, could you actually be charging for a service that validates the game every time it is run? You know, like you assume that all copies are rogue until you get a chance to validate them at each startup?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2012
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Just FYI... some people complaining about the new system were saying they'd no longer be able to run LANs using one copy of rFactor. As in, it hadn't even occurred to them there was anything wrong with having 4 mates come over and all use one rFactor license for it, and had been doing so for some time. That plus the potential for running VPNs to play virtual LAN games over the net gives 2 reasons this system has been put in place.

    As for getting extra activations, obviously I'd assumed you still had your same email address and so could request more. I don't know what the deal with trying to prove your identity without it is, but I guess the line has to be drawn somewhere. It's a good reason to have a 'stable' email address - so one not tied to your ISP, for example.
     
  12. AlanBernardo

    AlanBernardo Registered

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    I'm afraid you did not read my post as thoroughly as you could have. I called you either a liar, someone who thought he was telling the truth but wasn't, or someone who didn't completely come clean as to why you did not get your activations.

    Since the last seems to be the one at issue here, you can't expect ISI or anyone who uses these activations to allow activations just for the sake of allowing activations. If that were the case, then anyone could get an activation and give it to someone else. It has to be tied to something covering the correct purchaser, and undoubtedly spelled out in the EULA. Apparently you didn't meet these requirements. If that isn't fair, then maybe nothing is.

    I think in the end all your arguments are moot. ISI has decided to do what is has decided to do. Not being happy with it, you simply do not purchase the software. And if enough people aren't happy, then the PEOPLE have spoken (not just you). ISI would then have to re-evaluate its policies and make the proper adjustments in order to continue to make a profit.

    Words have different meanings, you know. Naive also means believing in the absurd, something that is totally divorced from reality and not based on experiences of how the world works. If you held an orange in front of me and said, "this is an orange", I wouldn't be naive in thinking that is what it is. But if I held an orange and said, "eat this, it will get you more activations", it would be a bit naive to believe that, since experience has shown that to be false . So you're thinking that all companies are out to make a profit and run (instead of making a profit, retooling using part of that profit, and then making more), is simply naive, based on some experience of yours that is not based in how things actually work.

    But, heck, this is all too much wrangling. Get a refund. Buy an EA game, visit the Codemaster store, eat some oranges. Be a sport, live, and quit being so angry about things.



    Alan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2012
  13. PCG-Smee

    PCG-Smee Registered

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    @ Alan: Having the original purchase documents (emails sent to MY email with MY name on the email from trymedia) doesn't qualify me for activations? What did I miss?

    @ Lazza -- I still have the Gmail address for the second purchase. They refused to provide new activations to emails sent from that address.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2012
  14. PCG-Smee

    PCG-Smee Registered

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    Did you know that the ORIGINAL email I got with my first purchase actually says:

    "If the license file on your computer is lost, if you change your computer's configuration, or if you wish to install the software on additional computers, you will have to RENEW your license using the activation code below:"

    That explicitly gives permission to install on ADDITIONAL (read more than one . . . i.e. a second, third, etc.) computers --- such as a LAN without buying additional licenses.
     
  15. Kristoff Rand

    Kristoff Rand Registered

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    I got more than 10 activations, lost my keys, re installed, yada yada... they were always nice and I always got another key. bees with honey... not with vinegar?

    btw I paid $43 for BF3 pre-order which I got a discount, my friends paid $65 on pre-order... and what did we get for pre-ordering? access to early beta. it was buggy, but it was beta, and we got to help mold what it became. whats-more we invested in the development with our cash.

    I can't say I've seen any greed from ISI, I have seen lots of people asking to upgrade to lifetime and being told "just wait, you have plenty of time" that doesn't sound to me like greed... if they were greedy they could have banked on the rfactor name and released 3 mod filled updated graphic expansions by now and raked it in...

    can we get a whine and cheeze section for the forum?
     
  16. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    Oh? I was under the impression you had already purchased the game. Well, then. Point taken. Nothing else to see here I guess.
     
  17. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    We don't require a yearly fee with the lifetime version. It's $84, take it or leave it. :)

    We are doing our own copy protection now, yes. Again, take it or leave it.

    If you're not happy paying, and not happy with the pricing and features, request a refund and/or don't buy the product. You're asking for honestly and that's what you're being given, if you don't want to purchase or keep one (if you already made one) - don't.
     
  18. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Just like Valve does with Steam installations, right? Wrong. You can install on multiple machines, but each client/user is supposed to have their own account/purchase.
     
  19. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    From what I understand you do not need to renew your 'online' license to be able to play 'online'?
    You just have to do everything manually.
    As long as you have the IP you can join that server(as long as you have the correct mod/track).
    Although I have yet to see where one can 'insert' an IP?
    Except for maybe inserting it into the shortcut?

    So in theory this should work for LAN as long as you have 2 copies of rF2?
     
  20. [NAR]Steve

    [NAR]Steve Registered

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    No, in order to play online, even in LAN, you have to go through the rfactor ( ISI ) matchmaker service, which means you have to buy the subscription. ( yearly, or lifetime )
     

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