I think we just need a reference model made from ISI to say to the community what is their objective. When this model will be provided, ISI has to claim it and after we can discuss if we are not happy of what we get in game. IMO, ISI have to put a reference finished car (one) with all the feature working (wipers, headlight with good calibration and good reflection/shaders) when ISI will be happy of the result ingame. At this time ISI say it and give all the tools/documentation/parameters to get the same result. At this time I think the 60 cars are the most advanced, but need some work to be final. Some car modders (or all ?) are waiting for this point from ISI, until this, they are stopped in the car development.
At this point, everything is classed as unfinished, even if we never touch it again. The software is beta and everything in it is classed as such. I'm not sure why modders would be completely stopped, their models will still work, and there is much learning to be done on the physics, which are mostly there.
Today if I list a non exhaustive list of elements needed to work seriously in the cars: - Acceptable number of poly on the LOD_A of a car (including wheels), we need a reference from ISI matching with their graphical engine capabilities at max - Final shaders to see what is the expected results ingame with reflection/shadow and so on - References materials for cockpit and body parts - Working materials for the wheels, at this time it's not working well and so we can't adjust the textures properly - Working wippers and method to do them working - Reference Driver (Helmet + Driver) under 3DS Max with animation to provide it to moders freely and uncrypted, to get all a good reference driver - Headlight reference working with realistic render on day and night over track and cars. For physics. At this time, the cars provided in rF2 have not reference physics, we can take several point in them that's show this is not logical. So we need a reference car, with explanation of the differences between rF1 and rF2 if there is changes. Because today, what it was applied in rF1 not work (or have not same values) in the rF2 ISI cars. For sounds, seems to be able to work, but when I take several cars ingame from ISI, non of them are balanced, some have external sounds louder than onboard sounds, some are better on this point, same on the external sounds on track, the sound of the spectators is louder than the onboard engine sound when driving. Not real logic and realistic ratio if you take the default sounds settings of rF2 at this time. Sounds are mainly based on these references, if you change one reference during beta stage, all the work is to redone from zero in this domain. So this is on hold in this sector too. So as said, we need confirmation from ISI, Tim, we need to know what you freeze as a reference to be able to work in a good secure way. On the track point of view all seems to be under control and track modders are able to provide track (see Mid Ohio from VLM track) but on cars, we need a solid reference model with final shaders/materials to allow to finalize the works. Today, the cars are ingame, the performances are not so good, if you compare the same car in rF1 and in rF2 with the same options (all max and same drivers settings in video panels) with only one car, we get more than 200 FPS in rF1 and 80 FPS in rF2, and if you add opponents, the FPS are decreasing dramatically in rF2. The car from rF1 to rF2 are all in game in our side, but they are worse in looking point than rF1 for several reason listed above, and when we try to adjust, the results is bad, because nothing is stable on this sector (I hope so, it's not final). But we need at least One reference car and more support on that. So yes it's a beta, no problem on that, but please, if you want car moders motivated and continue to work on rF2 platform, please, take the point and answer or explain your plan on this sector, because today, many car modders are worried and decided to stop and wait, or think to switch on other modding platform, like perhaps Asseto Corsa. And the only reason, it's the lack of information from ISI team on these subjects. If you have a plan, so share it clearly please.
Great post. I am in the middle of writing an email to the company to make sure they don't miss things I've seen, will be sure to include your post.
Thanks for that, if you need more precise information or discuss more in deep, you could ask me in PM, beacause I can't provide screens in public ISI forum to show what I say (because the cars we develop are a secret, and we want to save the surprise to rF2 community) EDIT : I sent you a PM (not sure this working, because I have nothing in my sent Item box on PM part )
mad_king explains in details what i said in the track developement update thread, so i say +1 ^^ i just want to add something. the online part, is a MAIN part. netcode, servers parameters, lag, number of cars, collisions etc. i think we all agree to say this part need a big big test before a final version of the software. today, from what i see, we can't organize some online tests because we have not the content and too much bugs. so that's why i don't understand why the packaging system is the priority today. repackage something will take ... 10 or, even, 30 minutes... nothing. rework a mod, as Mad king said, will take hours, days ^^ so, if ISI want we test, test and re test the online part (who seems not finished today) we (isi + modders) need to be more attractive.
+1 to MadKing´s post! Thats what I said month ago in a track discussion-thread: We need references and fully functional stuff that is leading the way for us! In terms of cars/ car physics but also in track-issues. Btw: I (most of the time) love reading this forum and love it to see the thing grow! Greets, Pete
Indeed !! At the moment, many people implied in the dev of mod for rf1 are not convinced in rf2, both for graphic aspects and for physics ones. I have to say that i don't think that the last mod (gt endurance) can be considered as a reference for physics, especially in the matter of tyres. There is a post of niels about tyres one month ago or so which imho should be deeply analysed by isi to change their mind about tyre modelisation in rf2. And as Fan said also, at the moment, the test of online aspects has still not begun, probably due to the unsatisfied waiting of simracers and modders about rf2. I hope the ISI will have the capacity the take benefit of all the commentaries and will soon propose something maybe less innovative (at this time) but more in the way of rf1 with first improvement of physics and graphics, but then with more deep revolution Please consider my post as constructive. Gilles
I not agree about the physic aspect you describe, for me I'm convicted, but, the cars provided by ISI are very strange/not coherent between them in physics point of view. My feeling, is the following, perhaps I'm wrong, but it's what I feel. - Historic 60 : F2 : For me is one of the more enjoying car in term of physics, the car have no aero, so you can feel the road on the tire and drive. Not tested the F3 and F1. - Megane Trophy : Impossible to drive this car on high speed tracks, because seems there is some balance problem between front and rear aero. I have the feeling the car has not enough aero at rear. So the rear go away on fast corners. So I enjoy this car only with full aero at rear, and some times it's not enough to drive on some tracks. - FR 3.5 : Same as Megane, impossible to drive, the rear have no aero, the rear is going away on every turns, impossible to drive to me. - Nissan GTR : The feeling is less bad than the Megane Trophy, the rear is better, but there is the same issue, I need to put more camber, and aero at full when I have 3 at front. But it's better and perhaps the car I like to drive on track after the F2. But for a GT1, I feel it more than a GT2 in term of power, but it's just sensations. - 370 Z : I make some laps yesterday. And, there some things strange on this car, I love the balance of this car (default setup), but this car is stuck on ground, I drive quickly with the GT4 than the Nissan GT1 !! Not sure of the problem, but it's quite impossible to loose the car on turns, too more aero on this car?, don't know. Strange sensation, but good balance in front/rear for this car. I have to dig this more in deep. So, as said, we need a physics reference car with aero, the Corvette GT2 could be a good example. Make this car as final (3D/texture/meterials/Physics and sounds), take the time for that, and after we can comments and ask for information and what we think if it need to be improved and to be able to work in calm on the rF2 cars. NOTE : I'm not a physics specialist and I don't open the files to check what I feel. So, perhaps I'm wrong.
Madking, i have quite the same feedback than yours to provide about current rf2 cars. I agree that the aero needs to be further analysed and maybe corrected. But i experienced also lot of problem with cars at low speed which let me noticed that there is maybe also an issue with the tyres currently available . Moreover, i honestly don't understand at the moment how i will use the tyre tools provided in rf2 to get the right behavior of the tyres. That's why I've focused on tyres in my previous post.
It's clearly the best mod in term of physics/FFB for all cars. I have still two suggests: I find the direction consistency too loosy at low speed. I don’t know if it’s placebo effect but it seems improved with the last build. In the same idea, I found too much difference in strength FFB between loaded/unloaded tires and now it’s seems less marked. Megane Trophy : neutral feeling with this car, FFB is poor without “life”. The worse mod with really strange FFB: At Low speed: too loosy At High speed: too strong When the grip is lost: too loosy It’s like ON/OFF FFB As you said the feeling is less bad than the Megane Trophy but there is not a big difference expect the dashboard view and sound.
The Formula Renault is a tricky car to drive but when you say the Megane is impossible to drive I call BS!!
Actually the FR and 370z are my favorites so far. I noticed a big difference in response after messing with the setup, 3rd spring, etc and haven't had any serious high speed stability issues (at least from Malaysia, Mills Outer or whichever layout has the high speed braking left hander, and some top speed drafting on Spa)
