[REL] Next Gen Mod Team - BTCC NGTC Touring

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by WSVR, Sep 25, 2014.

  1. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    It's really not about torque steer, and the new steering system won't help.
     
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  2. CatAstrophe_05

    CatAstrophe_05 Registered

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    Yeah, I understand, so emphasis on the "to an extent". I just feel it's somewhat excessive currently.
     
  3. zxd1997

    zxd1997 Registered

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    I heard from someones who have drive some high horse power FWD race cars (like TCR or some national touring cars) tell me that these cars' power steering is very powerful and can reduce a huge amount of torque steering, but this effect still exists and can be feel while some edge driving. And they also tried rF2 WTCR mod, using the slighter ffb setting and tell me that's similar to real... I doubt that might because NGTC cars have not so much power steering help or suspension geometry related, or the new FFB system, @Lazza I've ask Tommy to add new and old system to compare on his WTCR mod, the old might be a little more similar to NGTC cars and the new close to that people who driven the real car... That confused me for a long time, so I'm afraid that the final answer might need to ask the real drivers.....
    AHA and I remember that Aidan you have contact with Colin Turkington, although he usually drive RWD cars, but I think his feedback might help, so could you ask him for a help to drive these cars (yep, both WTCR cars) to have a test and give some opinion? Thanks
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I posted quickly above and didn't really detail what I meant. To my understanding (happy to be proven wrong) the different-length-driveshafts part of torque steer doesn't happen in rF2.

    The other parts of torque steer, or main parts I think, being unequal loads (on the front tyres) and also some camber/toe effects with suspension droop under acceleration, are definitely a thing in rF2.

    Having the steering attached to the tyres obviously only happens in FWD and is very uncommon in the official cars (especially recent ones), and I suspect that's where the majority of this comes from - the forces brought through from the tyres with differing load and traction between the steered-and-driven tyres.

    Suspension geometry may play a part, and would be worse with a MacPherson strut as a broad generalisation. I don't think the game is capable of proper MacPherson (I got a system basically functional but there were some auto-adjustments the game was doing that was upsetting some of the positioning; I decided it wasn't worth trying to set everything manually everywhere when I wasn't sure it would work anyway) so any mod that tries to replicate it may choose a method that could make this worse - but again, I think this is a lesser factor than the raw tyre forces. [edit: oops - was thinking of another mod...]


    I don't think the 'new steering system' will really have much effect at all on this. It's more about the linearity of the steering rack, it doesn't do some magic that wasn't there before. (the dev blogs did mention more accurate torque to the tune of 1% or 2% - nothing in this context)
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
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  5. Cyril Cherry

    Cyril Cherry Registered

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    Great experience for me with this cars.
    Much pleasure to drive and very cool race battles with AI.
    I share U a race at Silverstone with AI level and agressivity on maximum, and really really fun race...
    I've to try more, but good job, thanks.
     
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  6. Ralph_Raccoon

    Ralph_Raccoon Registered

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    But i think in terms of the NGTC cars it´s less important that rF2 can´t work a proper MacPherson, or am i wrong?
     
  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @#$%! No, you're probably right. I was thinking of another mod at that point :confused::oops:
     
  8. StrawmanAndy

    StrawmanAndy Registered

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    Main problem is you can't setup the FFB to be a hydraulic or electric powered in rF2. All you can do is edit where the force is coming from and how strong it is. In terms of ironing out or adding details, it comes from the tyre mainly. So it feels more powerful in 0.99 because we have a more advance tyre. We can go backwards but then, well the handling suffers and you get an older style rF2 car. Which isn't bad, but would mean you lose recent advances made by s397.

    We can't stop the torque steering completely, so if you're not a fan of that, you'll have to drive with it extremely low on force or accept you'll be RWD for life. And if we do that, then you may lose all sense of the other forces/actions happening. I know real teams can run super light steering inputs, but don't forget they have the other forces of a car around them. We only have ffb, sight and sound. We cannot feel the car moving under us like they can, that's why they can get away with it. Why ffb is important rather than realistic.

    And as people say, the new steering inputs are 1-2% improvements. But more on giving accurate forces, which the FWD don't struggle with atm, so really you'd maybe make it worse by having more direct force and torque steer inputs. It would be marginal but not enough to fix or overpower the issues.
     
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  9. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    I can ask Mike Epps, he drove the VW in the BTCC for Team Hard. I'm also in contact with Tom Ingram but no guarantee of an answer.
     
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  10. zxd1997

    zxd1997 Registered

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    all the discussion about steering might be help but I'm sorry that seems I bring the discussion to some unnecessary side... The updated cars have a really unpredictable rear and have a narrow setup range (rear arb especially) .... I know fwd cars need loose rear to help turn in but not like this, hope 1.0 would change something
     
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  11. McFlex

    McFlex Registered

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    Look at Tommys TCR Mod. So far he is the first one who tried to emulate the characteristic of a MacPherson suspension with a multi link suspension and i think from what i saw he managed to do it quiet well.
     
  12. Adamcas87

    Adamcas87 Registered

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    Can I just say more then enjoy these cars and the BTCC series, with any updates coming in the future I look forward to them
     
  13. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    One can also take a look at Bristow's strut emulation in WSC70 from the rF1 days. To me, that design seems pretty intuitive.
     
  14. Trebor901

    Trebor901 Registered

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    But BTCC cars dont use macphereson struts. They're all inboard pushrod type attached to the subframe.
     
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  15. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Well, never mind then :)
     
  16. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    You need to elevate the virtual seat a little bit, seems like you're driving a F1.
     
  17. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    @StrawmanAndy there's any possibility to maintain the old cars in the mod? Like Civic and Cruze, with the original physics? Sometimes I have the desire to remember the old times and I can't do anymore.

    About the version 1.0, i think you should wait until december to not affect current championships.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  18. Brack Jabham

    Brack Jabham Registered

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  19. Trebor901

    Trebor901 Registered

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    What happened to these guys? they get grabbed to help make the new btcc game or something?
     
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  20. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    hahahha, good obervation, it's a possibility!
     

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