New user interface (by FSR - preview)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Luis Armstrong, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Emery

    Emery Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,035
    Likes Received:
    1,654
    Well, you challenged me to go look and this is what I found:

    Threads Posts Forum
    552........5259.. Car Modding
    590........6775.. Track Modding
    39......... 203.. User Interface and HUD Modding
    110........2215.. Plugins

    I think that shows that the bulk of the community's interest, their initiative, lies in track and car modding. Which means it is understandable that ISI's resources are not participating much in UI modding.
     
  2. Led566

    Led566 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    24
    Lol. Did you ever noticed were is located the wheel in your real car?
     
  3. Luis Armstrong

    Luis Armstrong Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    3
    Most regular cars i notice that, the top of the wheel is under your chin line. MClaren 1988 if, i remember right, the wheel are smaller and top of wheel make a line under your nose. I think modern f1 still that (under node line) but now the wheels are almost a square.
     
  4. Led566

    Led566 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    24
    So, if you want to replicate the real car and you have a reasonable big screen with your eyes leveled to the half of the screen do you believe your wheel is inside or outside your FoV?
     
  5. Luis Armstrong

    Luis Armstrong Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    3
    Inside

    edit: just for clarifying thats mclaren 88 only get on line of the nose when Alain Prost is in the cockpit:

    View attachment 11992
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2014
  6. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,744
    Likes Received:
    40
    I have the same problem on my rig but all I do is move my head around to see past the wheel. It isn't like we have the GUI up while racing. Not sure I understand what the issue is.
     
  7. Luis Armstrong

    Luis Armstrong Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    3
    If that helps, i moved task bar to the right monitor. To the right side when use 1 screen. It was the only thing annoying about wheel
     
  8. Murtaya

    Murtaya Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was never a problem (really) just feedback, it wasn't meant to cause an argument. Yes I can strain to look around the wheel, that's what I do now, and in a high sided bucket seat arranged at a realistic diving position for say an open wheeler, it really is a strain.
    I understand it is my fault I try to use realistic driving positions to add as much immersion to the sim from my side as possible, I think it's important now and will only be more important with a VR headset to assume the correct driving position for the car in use.
    It's a pain to do, no lie, probably (definitely) makes it harder to drive some cars but unless you do it, most of the time you aren't experiencing proper simulation. You are virtually lying down with your feet up behind the wheel for a modern formula car. The only vehicle simulated by an office chair, with a wheel clamped to a desk and pedals on the floor is a van. If you can't move your seat, wheel, and pedals for height, tilt, and distance you have to compromise the simulation a bit for some vehicles. I hate unnecessary compromises.

    I now expect to get ripped and told I'm doing it wrong. :)
     
  9. Christian Rosén

    Christian Rosén Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    1
    I totally agree with you Murtaya, I have had the same thoughts. I always prefer functionality before beauty, if the functionality can coexist with beautiful design, it is a bonus. I liked LFS GUI which looked not pretty but had PLENTY of buttons/options (was some years ago I used LFS though), and I really don't like AC`s GUI.
    This new modded GUI for rf2 looks prettier/cleaner than anything else i've seen so far though, the functionality remains to be seen. :)
     
  10. Rik

    Rik Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    9
  11. samuelw

    samuelw Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    4
    Murtaya:
    IMHO, I think you need to raise your monitor a few inches. IRL, modern open wheelers probably have the lowest seating position. If you look at real life pictures of F1 cars the seating position only allows the driver a horizontal line of sight that is only a few inchs or above the nose of the car. (Google F1 seating position and you will see diasgrams for this.) The top of the F1 steering wheel is below the top of the cockpit and a few degrees below the drivers horizontal line of sight. When the driver looks straight ahead he looks over the top of the wheel. In rF2, if you adjust the on screen appearance of the Marussia to reflect what the real life driver would see, the top of the Marussia is at about 4/10 of the way up the screen. (1920 x 1080) The top of the steering wheel would be below that. In your diagram your steering wheel is much higher so I don't think your diagram reflects a realistic driving position. You can raise and lower your monitor, raise and lower your steering controller, and adjust how rF2 draws the virtual cockpit in order to achieve a realistic driving position. I've setup my driving rig so that my steering wheel only cuts off a few inches of my monitor (My primary interest is historic racers which appeared to have higher seating positions)

    JUst trying to be helpful. Adverse opinions, corrections, and/or modifications welcome in the interest of advancing the art of sim racing.
    SW
     
  12. Murtaya

    Murtaya Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    0
    Samuel the diagram was a rough thing to illustrate the UI in a simrig issue, I wasn't criticizing the modder for doing a splendid job on making the UI better, more hoping ISI might do something about options for accurate simulator setups, like allow the side monitors to display UI. In my photo the axis of my wheel lines up with the axis of the virtual wheel in the car and I can see the rev counter thru the wheel (which measures close to 140mm like a real one) I actually adjusted my monitors lower so this happens. If they were a few inches higher as you suggest the wheel would not line up, and my eyes wouldn't be roughly level with the centre line of the monitors. The wheel would actually need to go higher and cover even more of the monitor if you want to line up properly with the marussia, I'll do that when I a get an F1 style flat topped rim that I can see over. Even with my wheel as it is and the seat position in the marussia set to the highest, the axis of the virtual wheel is above my real wheel, and the pedals also need to go a bit higher, your toes need to go up behind the monitor really. In short I still want/need further adjustability than I have already modded into my rig (because I have researched driving positions on google, looked at various vehicles at car shows etc). The driving position in a historic would be close to something like sitting in a bathtub, but with your butt and toes at about the same height. With your monitor set as you describe, your wheel axes can't possibly line up unless you are using some strange FOV.

    I added some pics of the Marussia to show how little you would see facing forwards. If you have the wheel at 90 degrees (and were looking forward and not at the apex) pretty much all you can see is your hand and the edge of the rim. So your knuckles would nearly line up with the top of the centre monitor!
    View attachment 11996 View attachment 11997 View attachment 11998
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2014
  13. samuelw

    samuelw Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ok I now understand your problem better. In the historics I usually turn the wheel graphics off and when I leave it on for wheel mounted tachs I don't try to line up virtual and real wheels. What I have to compromise on is seeing mirrors and guages versus seating position and FOV. Have you tried playing around with the pitch adjustment in the PLR. I believe the default cockpit view is looking down at an angle of a few degrees?
    SW
     
  14. Murtaya

    Murtaya Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes I know about the camera pitch settings, they aren't bad if you can adjust everything else like I say. Just for fun or annoyance, I did a quick mock up of roughly where I think a permanent Marussia setup will leave you with the UI. :)

    View attachment 11999
     
  15. GCCRacer

    GCCRacer Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,317
    Likes Received:
    2
    Wouldn't it make more sense from a simulation POV to get a F1 style wheel with data readout and just run the bonnet cam, then the wheel could be lower than the actual screen (the underside of your screen would become the top of the car bonnet)?

    The way you draw it, if you want to have the cockpit onscreen you just lost most of the actual track/opponent/sky area anyway.

    Why not go without virtual pit and make your real pit the replacement for the virtual one? It gives you more useful viewing area and gets you a fully visible menu.
     
  16. samuelw

    samuelw Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    4
    Murtaya,
    I don't think what you want is possible. IRL F1 pilots look over the top of their wheels. If real life F1 drivers looked through their wheels they would only see the cockpit since the wheel is lower than the top of the cockpit. Googling F1 seating position you will see diagrams that show a horizontal plane through the drivers eyes appears to be several inches above the plane corresponding to the top of the car's nose, allowing the driver to see the road in front of the car. Where you to construct a sim cockpit duplicating the seating position and steering wheel position of a real cockpit your real wheel will not line up with the virtual wheel since your real wheel site at least a few feet in front of the monitor. This can be minimized to some degree by moving the virtual seat position forward. The only way to have the wheels line up is lower the virtual position so that the plane of the cars nose lines up your eyes, but then you can not see the road. I don't think this is realistic. The diagrams from the sight I suggested (sorry address is to long to link) show that IRL the F1 jockeys sit a little higher so they can see where they are driving.

    Setting up FOV, seating position, ect. requires compromises. After 18 years, I am still struggling to find a satisfactory FOV and seating position. Perhaps when Occulus Rift hits everything will fall into place.
    SW
     
  17. Minibull

    Minibull Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,556
    Likes Received:
    18
    Surprised noone posted this yet...skip to the end to see the camera setup.

     
  18. Murtaya

    Murtaya Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    0
    There you go, even with the extra fov of the camera (fisheye effect) you barely see the road ahead, if you can see more than that you aren't really experiencing a simulation. It is possible to have it like that, and realistic views in all cars, don't think many people want to is really what's going on. It's harder that's why. It's going to be hard to compete online against someone using a camera way up high looking down the road with an altered pitch unrealistic fov, or nosecam, I don't mind not being competitive online, I'll sacrifice that for more realism always. Yes occulus and vr will change things (including any need for the ui to be on a side screen), hopefully it will eventually level these sort of things out online with fixed cockpit view becoming the norm, rather than a rarity on servers. I believe using a realistic seat position may then become an advantage. If you don't, at best I think you may get some sort of blissful out of body experience, at worst you will feel sick and just say "no occulus is rubbish" it "feels" weird. Guess a true occulus users server will run fixed cockpit with visor mod fixed as well. Would be harder to play without wearing an occulus if set that way.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2014
  19. Domi

    Domi Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    44
    That video doesn't show real eye view, it is below eye view. If that was real, eye height would be at same level as the top part of the steering wheel, if you check pictures on Internet you can see easily how driver's eyes are above the steering wheel. You are insane if you think that they don't see anything.
     
  20. Murtaya

    Murtaya Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think I said "can barely see the road ahead", so my sanity is safe thanks. I would assume "real eye view" meant real eye view and not chin view. These days they can perform all sorts of miracles. I mean I don't know because I didn't see how they did it, but couldn't it be that they used 2 cameras either side of the helmet to capture 3d and this is the 2d version? That would be insane wouldn't it? Anyway here's yesterdays winner explaining.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2014

Share This Page