Released New Release Candidate Update - Client 7969457

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Dec 15, 2021.

  1. JustDave

    JustDave Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2021
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    73
    I only have one thing to say about the physics and the driving experience that rF2 offers us right now.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
     
  2. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

    Joined:
    May 18, 2019
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    400
    It's kinda broken in certain cars though... Not completely, but annoyingly so.
     
  3. JustDave

    JustDave Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2021
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    73
    I can only say, like most of you I also play the 'other' games. But the one thing that brings me back to rF2 EVERY TIME after playing the other games is the way the cars feel. The other games do not come close. I do not want a 'blanket' physics adjustment to ruin the cars I personally enjoy.

    I do back to back comparisons, from one game to another. Same cars, same tracks. For the cars I drive, rF2 is the king. The one thing that can ruin that is a physics adjustment that is not needed. Granted, I do not drive every single car in the game, so I can not say all the cars are perfect.
     
    Nieubermesch and Highlandwalker like this.
  4. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    418
    Glad we agree on a solid basis.

    On the other hand, I do not agree with the above, or rather, we absolutely do not have the same approach :

    I really don't care, really don't care about the popularity of rF2, what in theory it would take to steal users from other simulations. I do not care.

    I define what in my opinion is by far the main character of a large simulation, I affirm that it is my personal priority for rFactor 2 and for any simulation. I say that rF2 remains in my opinion (I could be wrong) the most realistic simulation despite these flaws which are real. BUT I AFFIRM THAT LITTLE IMPROVEMENTS IN FIELDS RELATING TO REALISM for 5 years (it's gigantic 5 years isn't it?), IT'S TRULY INNACEPTABLE from my passionate point of view.

    Yes I affirm that among the priorities chosen by S397 these last 5 years, realism should have been constantly in the top 3 and frankly the number 1.

    I also repeat that I have nothing to do with commercial considerations, and that obviously the choices in this area of S397 are catastrophic or even cataclysmic.

    And I was just talking about esport so as not to offend anyone. I have a deep respect for all types of users, including online players of whom I am not a member.

    But try to improve the online, EXCLUSIVELY AND BEYOND OFFLINE PLAYERS, by improving it badly and very slowly in addition, yes really it is annoying.

    So if you want, UI (failed) + CS (mostly failed) + graphics (very partially successful as the enhancements are deployed on a very small portion of the rF2 content) + esport (almost nobody cares) : VERY GOOD PRIORITIES!!!

    Too bad that so few people here show their interest in the necessary and priority realism aspect for a simulation like rF2. THE LESS YOU ASK, THE LESS YOU WILL...
     
    Sim_Player likes this.
  5. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    418
    So we don't and never improve it? Ok..........




    (
    To be more clear :

    1) Repair the flaws
    +
    2) Improve other aspects physics engine/cars etc

    = More realistic simulation
    [[[isnt the goal of a simulation to be realistic]]]
    )
     
  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,369
    Likes Received:
    5,241
    I've realised I'm in danger of sounding like the last 5 years has been all smooth sailing, so let me dispel that one immediately :)

    And, I'll see your 5 years and raise you 9 - I wishlisted wet driving lines in 2013, as an example. I think there are many things that ISI and S397 could have implemented relatively easily by now (more easily than a complete graphics overhaul and the CS, and not only as an alternative) which would have improved the driving and immersion aspects for years now.

    I just don't think those things, now, would be enough for the best future of rF2. And I would say I'm not alone - so perhaps the reason everyone isn't crying out for better physics (features), is that often they're more concerned with getting the game running, working properly, and not crashing...
     
    Emery and juanchioooo like this.
  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes Received:
    3,488
    It is very interesting to see what happens next. At this moment it seems that rF2 is the only "stable" thing that MotrsportsGames has. They better utilize their efforts with Nascar game in a way that would also benefit rF2. Otherwise situation is extremely uninspiring, and it was uninspiring already for a long time. I'd argue that lack of passion and order is exact problem, with product like this, if everything would be done correctly, efficiently and successfully there would be no chance of failing to make a living from it. And I don't have any idea about that, but from the facts how rF2 was acquiring licenses, getting to be used for official lemans, being raced by famous people, all the esports attention, the deal with Grand Tour game, the deal with MSG.... All that makes me think that making the living out of rF2 fundamentals (which they didn't create, but they own it) was an absolute priority all the time. And it makes sense, everyone want a yacht and a porsche and Ian Belling through life.
     
    Sim_Player likes this.
  8. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    94
    reading through this thread again, I feel that some people stick to RF2 having the best physics out there and its not necessary to work out weaknesses and flaws in other area of the Game.
    sorry but world is moving, including the Simracing one so ACC with Nov2021 physics update and an external FFB app on top available as well, AMS2 with recent updates and Custom FFB are seriously catching up
    and they have so much better graphics, UI,MP on offer so should we say S397 needs to ignore that and be happy with the Physics elitist (real?) advantage.
    not sure we are doing this Sim a service by supporting this approach, I mean look at STEAM numbers for goodness sake
     
    Dady Cairo and Nieubermesch like this.
  9. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    418
    Already, I never said that we should abandon these areas, just give them less importance and give much more importance to physics.

    And the approach you want is approximately the one that S397 has been putting in place for 5 very long years :
    DAMN IT WORKS GOOD, IS NOT, LOL.

    And reread the first paragraph of this post please.
     
    Nieubermesch and Anto870 like this.
  10. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    94
    M8 please cool down

    5yrs of work when there is no clear set goals and poor tracking of achievement doesnt mean much
    Look at what a small studio like Reiza is achieving in a much shorter timeframe for example
    I have said that some combo are great in RF2 but few others are not so physics can be improved too( I dislike the AMG GT3 for instance)
     
    Anto870 and Nieubermesch like this.
  11. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    750
    Likes Received:
    306
    If you can't objectively point what's wrong with ACC physics and how rF2 is better then it means very little. It's similar with FFB some find ACC more real. Personally I don't feel qualified to say which sim does GT3 physics best, but there was a lengthy discussion that you can drive GT3s in rF2 in unrealistic way and still be very fast. I don't know if similar can be said about ACC.

    With the first part - I fully agree. Immersive FFB is the reason rF2 was my favorite sim. But I keep hearing and reading opinions that FFB is generally not that informative in reality. So a bit less immersive feeling you get in ACC or iRacing might me more realistic. Perhaps in rF2 you get almost too much road feel. But I have very little real track experience so IDK.
    But again, even if less realistic, I feel rF2 has most immersive FFB.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
    RaceNut and Filip like this.
  12. fasttuning

    fasttuning Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    12
    You can try rF2 AMG GT3 right now on Nordschleife. Than you can write what sim is better :) ACC is just a game, they broke their sim completely for the past year.
    In rf2 all cars is different with different tires and suspension modelling even from car to car in GT3 class so this is the main problem, but we all hope they solve this problem.
     
    Rui Santos likes this.
  13. Dady Cairo

    Dady Cairo Registered

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    160
    I doubt that.So Rf2 is a Sim and everything else is a Game.I doubt that twice.
     
  14. Binny

    Binny Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2019
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    242
    From what i have read through this post S397, need to fix bugs, optimize GRAPHICS, VR, ECT.. & update UI as these seem to be the biggest problem in getting the sim up & running for new users & some old users should be priority number 1 to entice more ppl to buy RF2. Then get CS up to a standard they are happy with, easy & straight forward system for new users and old. Now the core needs all the attention. Why others build/update tracks ,cars for dlc purposes and CS. Last of all optimization is key to every user getting the best experience they can it must be kept up to date on a regular basis. If I'm wrong dont shoot me its just what i think.
     
  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,369
    Likes Received:
    5,241
    OMG, you ignored AI completely :rolleyes: :p

    Joking of course. Yep, everything needs work. Only time will tell how that goes.

    Everything else is just opinion.
     
  16. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    418
    I told you that I tested these 2 games 6 month ago..... I don't remember exactly, and don't want give you some arguments anyway. You believe what you believe, you play what you want, don't care about your opinion of what is most realistic. I do my test (extensive tests), and I know that I'm right to have chose rF2 according to my preferences and priorities (realism).

    Play what you want, my point is not to convince anyone that rF2 is more realistic, I don't care man!

    Just want rF2 improve a lot in this aspect after 5 years of almost nothing.

    Without wanting to talk about myself, I have never driven the cars in the game, but I have 20,000 km of IRL driving, and for information I switched to rF2 in compensation for my stopping IRL driving, as a promise to my wife because I was going to be a father and that piloting is extremely dangerous.

    Most simracers don't have 1 tenth of my IRL piloting experience, it's exactly because rF2 is compensation for reality that I want it to be super realistic .... A SIMULATION WHAT.
     
  17. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    750
    Likes Received:
    306
    If you don't remember what objectively was wrong with ACC handling, then it means very little.

    Problem is that it's not my opinion, but an opinion of people who actually raced these cars IRL. OK you have 20,0000 km of IRL driving, but I wonder how much of it was racing at and over the limit and in what type of cars(road car, sports car, race car).
    I only have some karts experience, but it's easy and relatively safe to really push them, to race at and over the limit, so I think I'm entitled to say which sim has realistic karts handling and if not what is wrong. Now what would you say about person who didn't try karts IRL but has strong opinion that carts in rF2 are unrealistic, but don't remember why.

    Again I have very limited track experience and only with two sport cars (no racing cars). Plus I was too afraid to really push them to race at and over the limit ( and that's where often game's physics break). That's why I don't think I or a person with similar IRL experience is entitled to say whether GT3 in ACC or rF2 are more realistic and why. All I can say is that subjectively FFB in rF2 is more immersive, and you can slide and recover more.
     
    juanchioooo and Filip like this.
  18. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    527
    I just ran Automobilista and rF2 back-to-back at Brazil in the 911 Gt3 Cup.

    It is obvious to me that rF2:

    a) lacks front end bite (car understeering at times when it simply should not).
    b) engine has not enough torque to get the rear tyres spinning freely in places where they should spin (too difficult/impossible to get silky smooth powerslides on corner exit.)

    Automobilista car did everything right as far as responding to inputs IMO. HOWEVER rF2 still feels much more dynamic in every way.
    rF2 NEEDS to work on tyres and drivetrain!!!! I do not need to be a racing car driver to know when something feels NQR, I have driven one or two cars in my day... But nothing would make me happier than doing actual real world tests, that is probably the only way to know for sure if a car is correct or not (everything here is obviously IMO).

    Edit: either something is wrong with the torque, or the tyres are too grippy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  19. Comante

    Comante Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    This mean just that AMS tends more toward your idea of what to expect from this car on this track.
    Once upon a time, people here were of the kind :"show me the numbers" or "we don't want faked effect, only ones modeled on real numbers". Now things relaxed a bit fortunately... but I hope we don't get too relaxed as to follow personal opinions. :)
     
  20. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    415
    The Conundrum.

    rF2 physics demonstrate strong fundamental aspects to me, some that just feel more "right" than other titles. The general driving physics are great (inconsistencies & tire issues, though). The off-track / spin / crash behavior is largely believable, often very convincing. The resulting FFB produced by the physics is another factor that just works.

    The lack of drive-train dynamic modeling seems a major over-sight. The disparity among "physics" qualities within rF2, creates its own internal conflict, of sorts. How can you have such advanced "physics simulation" and completely omit the physical modeling of the drivetrain(?) It's just so very fundamental, being the main linkage between engine & tires. It's the very reason many still prefer a manual gearbox to this day; a greater "connection" with the car.

    A large part of the ICE driving experience (especially now, with the evolution toward EV's) is the engine noise, another area where rF2 is severely lacking, imo. Sounds are important, especially where immersion is concerned. There are few cars in rF2 that feature immersive audio for me. Much of what makes ACC / RaceRoom popular can be attributed to the overall audio experience.

    Even with the other annoying issues solved (bugs, crashes, UI, etc.), issues with AI / tires / drivetrain / audio, still combine to detract from rF2 living up to its full potential.

    I'm sure there are logistical strategies to employ in order to solve such issues in an efficient way but, it is difficult to envision from our POV, especially based on recent developments. Maybe "overly complex modeling / coding" is ultimately rF2's kryptonite in the end. Maybe it's all just been too ambitious from the start, I don't know. It may be why ISI moved on, and why S397 can't seem to make consistent progress. Still hoping for better (rF2) days ahead . . .
     
    TJones, ApexModding, Havner and 2 others like this.

Share This Page