New Ownership?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by graphicaluserinterface, Mar 3, 2021.

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  1. graphicaluserinterface

    graphicaluserinterface Registered

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    Is this the new misinformation train? You are literally making things up. Alonso, for exampledrives iRacing and has only raced rF2 for some of the broadcasted virtual GPs.

    Edit: Alonso has participated in over 250 races in iRacing this year.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  2. likes_simracing

    likes_simracing Registered

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    To me they are the same thing, both influenced statements. On one, you have an athlete paid to promote or say something about a product, explicitly or implicitly by being seen using that product. On this case, you have a shareholder of the acquiring party saying the acquired game is good, which is why I brought up that if MG instead bought Kunos, we would have heard the same thing about ACC.

    Could FA have declined if he did not believe that rF2 is the best? Sure, but it would not make business sense to him. He already did that glowy statement on KartKraft, so why not do the same here to help his investment stake. And this is not a formal call for investment in which his statement can be scrutinized as false advertising.

    This is quite common, I have been part of writing announcement of investments (I worked in investments before), and almost always the communications team would get someone very high up and very visible and say great things in a one-liner. These people do not even have to write the text, just read it then approve them. Even if FA does not believe it is the best sim, I do not see him declining that statement. Just business practice and sense.

    The only thing that would change this view is if FA was actually instrumental in driving that MG deliberation to acquire rF2 over another title. But we might not know that as outsiders.
     
  3. traind

    traind Registered

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    Yes, it may make business sense for Alonso and it may have been written for him to approve. But would he lie about it? Would you?

    I wouldn't. And if I had all Alonso's money, I wouldn't even be tempted to lie about it.... its not like simracing investment is going to come close to equaling the cash he already has or is earning right now with Alpine Renault. And he didn't say RF2 was the best sim, did he? He said it has the best feel. He may prefer iRacing overall but prefer RF2's handling feel.

    That specific comment resonates with me because handling feel is the single most important characteristic for me when I am using a Sim. Rf2 has a great handling feel with most cars and it allows me to overlook some of the other less-developed parts of the Sim because it feels so good. With my hardware and my settings I actually think iRacing, with some cars, has equaled or surpassed rf2. But the very best cars in rf2 are tough to beat.
     
  4. likes_simracing

    likes_simracing Registered

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    This is the correct take! :)
     
  5. likes_simracing

    likes_simracing Registered

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    Our morals do not come into this picture. Our opinion of rF2 is also irrelevant.

    Every serious marketer/businessman will have done this small white lie thing at some point, and more so when there is no clear, objective reference point to counter a claim. He likes rF2, someone asked him to put a statement, he said go for it. No big story. If he did not like it, the PR people would find a way to spin it so it does not read like a clear lie. If MG bought Polyphony, he would not say driving feel because that is easy to dispute, but he would talk about something else that makes it great. Between contemporary sim titles, it comes down to personal feel, and in this sense, even if FA truly prefers iRacing just slightly over rF2, if he is invested in rF2 now, he will still release that statement.

    Every car manufacturer says their car is the best handling when they introduce, more or less. It does not mean it is not true, it just means you have to consider that that statement might be suspect. It is also possible that FA actually believes that, even if he has not really tried all of these titles for that statement to make absolute validity.

    Of course it resonates with sim people. That's exactly the reason why they choose FA to say something. They have the president and CEO of MG, and Marcel on the other side. What else would make a lot of social media exposure and discussion? Ah, let's put FA in there to say something about it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  6. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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    On the other hand, we could be optimistic, look on the bright side, accept that Alonso has some integrity, hope for the best and see what happens rather than try to piss all over it before it even gets started...........
     
  7. likes_simracing

    likes_simracing Registered

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    I am optimistic. rF2 is my go-to sim when I want good physics and FFB feel and I'd want it to get better. I don't play any of its comparable competitors (ACC, AMS2, iRacing). If you think my commentary is pissing over it, you are mistaken. For one, I do not know enough about MG and S397 to form a reasoned opinion. Plus nothing in it is about the future for S397 and rF2. I was stating that while people hang on to what FA said and perhaps vindication that rF2 is THE sim, that it must be taken with a grain of salt because he is part of the crew, regardless of his personal integrity.

    All of that is irrelevant anyway in terms of future direction and potential new development. A new investor coming in is always exciting. Infusion of much needed investment and resources, wider exposure, new sim projects, and so on. Those come with a risk of strategic dilution, key assets being siphoned off, team being cast aside and whatnot, but overall, I'd be curious how this improves rF2.
     
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  8. traind

    traind Registered

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    I get what you are saying. I have worked closely with the marketing department in a very large global company and I have had to sell and market for the company I started 10 years ago too.

    However I strongly disagree morals don't come into it. Do marketers exaggerate a bit if they can get away with it? Yes. Does a F1WC say things he doesn't believe are true for a few bucks? I doubt it. Particularly Alonso, who is so candid he has been in hot water with two different F1 teams and hurt his career as a result.

    Of course he could find something nice to say about any racing sim. And when he was asked to say something nice about RF2, he said it feels the best to him. It's that simple. A one sentence quote for a press release. No marketing spin needed, no white lies required. No one here said that Alonso's endorsement means RF2 is the best. I mentioned it because having a 2 time F1WC endorse your product is cool... particularly when he, imo, accurately calls out the best characteristic of RF2 for praise.
     
  9. likes_simracing

    likes_simracing Registered

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    Morals being part of it or not is not our view to call. For you being a good person, I can name 10 others who will market on the edges of truth (I worked as an investment staff for a global, top-tier institutional investor and was analyzing, structuring and negotiating PE/VC fund deals, and I heard superlative statements all the time from what I would otherwise characterize as good, upstanding citizens).

    It is up to those people doing it. Maybe you won't cross that line, but it does not exclude others doing the same, including celebrities. You might believe otherwise, but either way tangential to this discussion. We do not know the truth. It could be FA is being truly honest just as a sim guy, it could be FA saying something he believes is true (or partly true, or he knows to be slightly not true) to help his investment. You have not heard of FA's statement outside of this announcement. If he went out of the way telling everyone that rF2 is good --outside of this announcement and unrelated to this investment-- then it would have been clearer. That statement did not have to be there (they already had the top guys from both sides, as is normal), but they wanted to add something to spark more interest.

    A marketing angle does not have to be complicated. A simple statement is fine. But it does not mean it is not strictly a marketing spin. A spin does not mean lying necessarily, just a way to put things in a good light. It is a spin: the PR team know that rF2 does not have a good reputation in many things, so they probably thought, hey, let's emphasize that it is unmatched in driving feel, and have an F1 champion do that. We don't even have to pay him, he is our shareholder!

    I don't disagree that it is cool that he is part of the announcement PR, as you said. It add validation to MG, and the view that rF2 offers MG more profit potential than other acquisitions (that, I believe is the real story, and completely different from the PR implication that he agreed to invest in rF2 because it is the best feeling sim). All I say is I have to cast a critical eye to FA's opinion because he is part of the team. And that coming from someone (me) who likes rF2's driving feel and would love F1 drivers say that to rF2.

    But the point here is, you and I have no idea if it is a small lie, or truth. You seem to claim it is the simple truth, and doubt FA would say it for a few bucks. We do not know this is for a few bucks. My first guess is MG is planning a full on Le Mans-based licensed game using rF2 underneath, cutting off iRacing on endurance licenses. That's a good project. And MG can continue holding competitions related to that. That's going to be a lot of advertising money later when e-sports become very mainstream. One eventual exit is for MG to be acquired by someone ever larger in sports media, for much larger bucks!

    So, I am saying we cannot know, and that I will not take any value from his comment because he is from the team. You can't absolutely claim it is the truth either, based on his prior candidness. It is equally easy to argue that he was part of some shenanigans during the McLaren-Ferrari saga, and not above board to cause trouble, not out of candidness and truth, but out of self-preservation.

    Anyway, I have said what I needed to say. I have no horse in this fight, and have no interest in convincing you beyond what I wrote. I said what I thought are points to support my view (that FA's comments, whether true or not, is automatically subject to critical thinking and should not be taken at face value just like that). If you think otherwise, we can both move on.
     
  10. Joaquim Pereira

    Joaquim Pereira Registered

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    Alonso is a shareholder... he can only say that or be quiet...

    The worst thing that can happen to us is a nuclear war, a "real virus" (the one expected by the experts to have a 60% dead rate, coming from birds) or a solar flare that collapses all human civilisation - those are much more probable than a life threatening asteroid.
    Also, human stupidity (which should never be despised, says Einstein) is a big civilisation risk.

    So, I'm OK with this acquisition ;):D .

    Really, I also support the idea that it could only bring more to the game, like more track and car licences (the Ferrari 488 was a product of these cooperation and Marcel is already working with Motorsport Games for a while).
    On the other hand, if there will be specific titles around some competitions, expect less of those in rF2....
     
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  11. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    I just don't view Alonso as being desperate enough to put a relatively tiny capital capital investment over his ego, to which seems to be hard to tame with the big bucks investors in him. Maybe you have better insight to that.

    I believe the merger has a great long term potential, its just plain good chemistry to blend. But it won't be without the growing pains of expanded collaboration and cultural shifts like that when S397 acquired rF from ISI.
     
  12. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Bobby Rahal, at the height of his Indycar career put his signature on Cart Precision Racing. Nuff said.
     
  13. Joaquim Pereira

    Joaquim Pereira Registered

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    Don't get me wrong :)
    Let me flip things a bit: what if this deal is only because Alonso thinks this is the best game engine to incorporate in the other MG games?
    A "logical" choice would be to buy Kunos because it already implements Unreal engine...
     
  14. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    Its early days and we can only guess but some random thoughts:
    A $16 million investment means they will want it to work not wither. Some of that money may be recouped by using S397 intellectual property across other games/sims. IE the ISI motor in a codies game.

    Bads/Concerns: Schoppert was COO at EA* which was a bit of a death star for games#. Acquiring but not developing.
    Goods: Hood was creative director at Codies, they did well for a long time. Zak Brown is CEO of the parent group and he is a racer.
    Once the "land grab" is done they will hopefully look forwards into strong portfolio management and each game or sim will be looked after in its own way in its own genre. They own some Simcade title so don't need RF2 to become one. They have also paid enough money to hold the unique assets of RF2 to have some value.

    Alonso is neither here nor there in my view. For all we know he was gifted 1% of the shares in return for fronting the operation as a racer. He was not high profile in the many series that occurred over lockdown but got to grips with RF2 at the end. He is a very busy guy right now trying to get his F1 act together, recovering from injury. He is mates with Zak Brown and that's probably the link.

    # EA owned then dumped the game that later under papyrus became iRacing.
    * Coincidentally it was developing the original game engine for the F1 2001? or 2002? game for EA that was ISI first gig.
     
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  15. Paul McC

    Paul McC Registered

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    "Core parts of our engine are integrated into the platform we’re building for the new NASCAR game as well as future games on console and PC. Motorsport Games already announced future products based on the Le Mans and BTCC licenses".

    Erm, so does this mean we'll not be seeing any development of BTCC or Nascar in RF2? If they intend to make new titles based around these I can't see that they'd want it availible in RF2. The Le Mans licence is confusing because of course RF2 has Le Mans so do they mean future cars and that track? Im optomistic but this seems a bit at odds with RF2
     
  16. Scoopscat7

    Scoopscat7 Registered

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    While rF2 stay moddable they can’t stop BTCC or NASCAR content appearing in rF2. Why would anyone buy a BTCC game when you can have the same experience with rF2 unless that was all you wanted? They would need to have a usp or block modders from producing that content?

    I can see a BTCC o r NASCAR release in the near future and then perhaps new releases being not moddable and seeing a GTE / GT3, BTCC and NASCAR games.
    Either that or all in one on a subscription basis with licensed content as above giving a European focussed equivalent to iRacing?

    Im sure there’s more to come but it will be interesting times ahead
     
  17. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    The NASCAR and BTCC will be separate titles from RF2, what could happen though (and was was alluded too in the interview) is that there's RF2 DNA in both of them, which IMO can only be a good thing.
     
  18. ATQ

    ATQ Registered

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    What worries me is the move to Unreal Engine. While it's a great engine it's also resource heavy. ACC for example is virtually unplayable in VR (total deal breaker for me).
     
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  19. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I would think that any 3rd party mod of BTCC or NASCAR would eventually get removed from the rF2 workshop. But sites like ISR would probably still be able to host for a time.
    S397 has a license for the Le Mans track but not the Le Mans race itself.(that looks like it's held by the new owners, no guarantee that would transfer to rF2 itself) I would suspect the new owners would prefer a stand alone product, similar to the BTCC & NASCAR titles. Perhaps an ACO/WEC product.
     
  20. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    Debido a la especulación, me veo obligado a hablar.
    Hoy en día no hay simulador más realista que rF2, rF2 es mi simulador favorito con GRID.

    Gracias chicos, nos vemos en la pista !!
    ______________________________________________
    Due to speculation, I am forced to speak.
    Today there is no simulator more realistic than rF2, rF2 is my favorite simulator with GRID.

    Thanks guys, see you on the track !!



    [​IMG]
    :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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