Hi guys, I just made a new line for a private conversion; the fast path. Now, the pit path doesn't align; it goes straight to the left and cars make a weird turn coming out of the pit to get to the fast line. I have no idea how I "did that before" but I think I never had such a weird line or that much difference in lines after putting in a new path. Anyway; how to merge the two properly together is unfindable now.....I don't get "this exact situation" from the descriptions. I tried making a new pit path, but what happens than, is that the garage spots and work spots don't work anymore. The cars don't come out of their boxes anymore; the connections are gone. Any suggestions about this will be very much appreciated, thanks in advance!
Making a new pit path late in the aiw process is something that can really screw things up badly, there are a number of steps that need to be taken, which I can't remember right now. I'll do a quick writeup soon though. But, for the transition between the fast path and the pit path, try using "normalize path" after selecting a bunch of pit waypoints. Sometimes that snaps the path right into place, saving you the trouble of having to do it all by hand.
Okay, this is what I jotted down a while ago, in regards to deleting and redoing pit paths after having done all other steps in creating an AIW: *delete branches *reset special waypoints (after which it's typically a good idea to save, exit track, reload track, save again) *hide MAIN and Special waypoints (so you don't accidentally edit them in the next step) *delete old PIT path (at which point it's a good idea to NOT have the car on the path, can cause CTD) *record new path, join as branch in both ends *reset special waypoints, again with the save, exit, reload and save. *find corridors *adjust the path transitions between PIT and MAIN on the racing paths, fastest, left, right etc. From my experience this should be a pretty bullet proof method. Let me know if you run into trouble.
Thanks mate, thats very nice of you! Meanwhile; I did run into trouble; I tried to let the path connect better because you said it was not best to touch the pit path. I agreed and tried. Problem now is; the AI goes 1,5 seconds slower..... I am very sure I didn't touch the other paths; not fastest, not middle or anything else. All is still the same. In devmode, with the exact same car; it goes 2 seconds faster than in normal mode. It was 0,5 seconds faster in dev, now even more, with the same AI and settings. Don't know where it went wrong, I figure that one out tomorrow and if needed; I can record a new pit path; thanks again!
Hmm, that is strange. It may be a bit tedious, but try checking the fast path for any out of place slow waypoints. That is, select fast path as visible/actionable, and then turn on speed text. That should give you an idea whether there are some waypoints somewhere that has accidentally been adjusted/slowed down. It happens very easily, so could be that.
To narrow down the search, try loading an AI car and drive behind it around the track to see exactly where it's losing all that time.
I did meanwhile; the line is how I made it. The line when it was doing 1.10.2xx Now, at almost all corners, it goes wide, doing 1.12.2xx The line is the same and does work in devmode. The car is still the same, nothing to do with different setup or anything else; I checked it all. In about an hour, I have time to look some more; I keep you posted. Thanks this far!
Well, part of the problem (that doesn't explain why in devmode it works properly still) is that I see now the game alters the fast path by itself. When I drive the fast line, I get close to the walls; braking just next to it.......the game thinks we are all morons and makes the line go to the outside some more even, just before turning in. In that case; the car hits the wall...... Or; two left-handers right after each other; I kept it wide, but I DID NOT go behind the wall; I can't even do that off course; the game made it so; the fast line goes right through the walls on a lot of places. To overcome this problem; I have to record a fast path while staying 2 meters clear of all walls, rendering the fast time that can be set very slow....... I am SO done with this game!
I've never experienced that a path I've recorded has been altered afterwards without me doing something to it. So I suspect maybe there's some odd setting at play? Also, the AI isn't able to replicate your way of driving 100 %, so that must be taken into account as well. Player vs. AI physics, specific AI RCD settings and all that jazz. Also, it's always worth looking into making multiple fast paths for different car types, if you have the time and inclination to do so. Record a path with the FISI for example and you'll typically see the GT cars struggle (bad understeer) when using that path. Use a stable car (you do NOT want the car to exhibit any sort of oversteer while recording), and preferably one without too much downforce. Lastly, in my experience, the AI does not necessarily benefit from a path that was driven absolutely "balls to the wall". Meaning, if you drive/record the absolute fastest lap you can muster, the AI will not necessarily drive that path very well. What's more important than outright speed is smoothness. Better to focus on smooth correct lines rather than going banzai trying to nail a record fast lap.
The thing is; I always saw this behavior when I look back at it but I never paid attention to it. I think it comes in when the aiw file has been in the real game and then set back; I don't know, but its not right away. Now, I have a pretty fresh install of rf2 and changed nothing to any json file or something like that. I have no idea what could be different or set wrong. As I use this track only with Indycars, I do the line with that one too. The only way to get the ai even a bit up to speed, is drive a fast lap myself. Any other line I tried (steering in early to get out straight and many more) makes the ai go slow. The ai, with same stock setup, understeers like a mother f*cker. My own car doesn't..... Maybe its just a bad track to make a proper fast line for; could that be?
The AI does not use player physics, so you can't expect them to be able to use the same lines as you do as effectively. Well, if you only intend to use the DW12 with that AIW, that's kind of a luxury. That means you'll be able to fine tune the path to match the physics of that particular AI as best as possible. Look at those corners where the AI understeers. Enable "speed text" and "driver stats", look at where the AI loses grip and speed and try to determine the cause of the understeer. Does it carry too much speed into the corner? Does it brake too late? As an example, I often find that the cause of AI understeer is a slow waypoint after corner entry. AI enters the corner fine, looks to the slow waypoint, touches the brakes a bit while turning, understeer city ensues. Smooth out that slow waypoint that makes the AI brake while turning, and slow down another waypoint before corner entry instead, so the AI is done braking once it turns in. It takes some experimentation, but usually it does the trick.
Thanks hexagramme for the valuable information regarding your tricks to get a proper fast path for the AI. I have heard you are quite experimented at it. However if what you say is correct, wouldnt it make sense to drive with AI physics when recording the fast path? There is a specific setting in player.json to do that. Also you could play a bit with the setup to get a decent one and later forcing the AI to use that same setup used when recording the fast path. According to your explanations it should be the way to do it. Don't you think? Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
That is an interesting idea, I've never thought about driving with AI physics myself when recording. I did notice it became an option a while back, but never gave it more thought. It'd be interesting to try out for sure. Forcing the AI to use a proper setup is definitely very valuable, no doubt about it.
Well, I thought that the AI drove with the same .hdv and chassis files with the exception of the tires; they use the .tbc file and thats the only thing they use different. Whatever I do; they keep understeering and banging into the wall like there's no tomorrow. I tried the front tires having more grip (even to the extreme), I tried more wing, even to the extreme, tried more grip of the track; nothing works! The AI does "listen" because lap times go down when I do such things, but they are so far of the fast line, its not even funny anymore; I'm talking about the complete track width off. Other tracks don't have this problem..... I read for the first time that I can drive with AI physics? How do I do that if I may ask? I'd like to try that out, see what happens.
It's certainly interesting to test that. However AFAIK I think you'd have to drive without FFB, I don't think FFB is enabled with player driven AI physics. But do try it and let us know how it goes. Can't hurt. A complete track width off the path?? That's crazy and highly atypical behavior. I've never had that happen before. Can you please check the following line in your AIW: acceptabledriverlinenoise= To my knowledge that determines (to some degree) how far off the path the AI is allowed to stray. I think 0.300000 - 0.500000 is about the normal range used in most AIWs. That's about the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. Have you been adjusting corridors yet btw?
Good one; I will check that line indeed! I did not adjust corridors yet, no. But.....testing with AI physics; how to? Can you tell me?
Corridor adjustments is a big help if you have ai consistently banging into walls. Player driven ai physics, hmm, shift + normal ai control key I think, so shift + i. Don't quote me on that though.
Yes, I did that before on another track a bit, but this is so much; there has to be a cause for all this I thought. Anyway; shift+i is the right one! No ffb indeed. What I noticed, is that the AI have a massive understeer. Well, nothing we already knew. Even more in high speed corners. I can fix that; more front wing and/or more weight at the front. I have to change that in the .hdv; that will affect my own car too! I am right, right? So that is no real option I think. And then; I already tried that; more grip from tires, wings and so on; nothing really helped. Even with front tire grip so high, that when they take a curb, the car flips over.......that seems like to much grip. But they still behaved more or less the same; they kept hitting walls but times got down. To "prove" the game itself adjusts the fast line, I took a picture from the AI driving. Take note of the line going through the wall; there is no way I have been able to record that one. And I know for a fact it was not like that of course. Second thing; its not s very sharp corner, but look at the position of the wheel.....and you can see its going into the wall. View attachment 20125
Aha, did you use "normalize path" at any point? This is exactly what it looks like when normalizing goes bad sometimes, often if you try to normalize a bit of straight going a bit into a corner. It will cause the corner radius to go crazy, and your screenshot really looks like that's what happened. Could it have happened by accident when you tinkered with the pit path to main branches? Look at the driver stats in that screenshot: Grip: 259% 240% is the front tires My theory is that the path got messed up by normalize somehow, and the AI is understeering due to the fact that the corner radius is completely off. In that screenshot the AI is panicking (throttle 33%) because it's realizing that it's about to hit a wall. But... you said that the path changes right after you've recorded it? Or did I misunderstand that part?
First of all; thanks for sticking with me mate, much appreciated! I know what you mean by normalizing the path and that it does strange things to the radius; I've seen that before on tracks. Sadly; its not that either. I have made -since this topic is running- about 30 fast paths and never touched the normalizing, pit connection or corridors; I just want the pure path to run (even a bit) decent. After that, I start working on the pit connection and -if needed- some corridors. It looks like that (normalizing I mean), I agree, but I didn't. It is very hard to put my finger on when it changes......sometimes I come back and it looks the same and the next day; its like this.....through the wall. You can see the car panicking, but it shouldn't; it isn't that hard of a corner to make. It is panicking because its already outside the line......would it have kept the line, it could have full throttle at that point almost. I have to say, I didn't notice the grip level. Is that multiplied by the downforce? Because the .tbc file is stock ISI.....I have no clue as to why its that high. I did fiddle a bit with the grip, but at the time of the shot; stock was in there.
