[REL] NEW! Endurance Pack - Now Available!

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. C. Banger

    C. Banger Registered

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    If you're getting nearly 50% loss with rain, then you should welcome any optimisation, even as a non-VR user, no? I agree with you about transitions from day-night. They're an FPS killer too.

    I don't disagree with you one bit. But if some users are experiencing 50% performance loss there's clearly some optimising to do.
     
  2. Nimugp

    Nimugp Registered

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    Wonder if S397 should drop wheel support (or at least lower effort for it), not a huge percentage ot that probably ;)
     
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  3. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    There is no support to wheel elite my friend, Bodnar/SimSteering, Frex etc don`t have it and most likely it is never going to be implemented. ;)
    If wheel elite was prioritized as much as VR in rF2 would you be happy with it if you was struggling with your ordinary wheel :rolleyes:
     
  4. Nimugp

    Nimugp Registered

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    that is not my point, my point is that global steam statistics doesn't say everything for this game. If you would look at global steam statistics a basic wheel wouldn't mean too much for rf2, while if you would look purely at rf2 users (or sim users in general), than it suddenly seems like a must. I'm not saying S397 should put most or all their efforts into VR, don't have it myself either, just saying that you can't judge how many people in sim-racing use VR based on overall steam statistics, there are plenty of games that don't support, or wouldn't benefit from VR at all (think city-builders for instance).
     
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  5. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    We are bit out of the topic but when I was asking SMP support I got reply from S397 that according Steam Hardware & Software Survey there are so few who owns 10xx card and my request was doomed. It seems that it is possible to judge and analyse how many own`s 10xx card in rF2 by using Steam Hardware & Software Survey but not how many own`s VR ?
    Everybody is suffering huge fps lost when weather (rain) option`s are used. I find it strange that rain optimization is only to VR elite and not to the common user at all. No mater which stats are used VR elite is minority in Rf2 and should not have benefits over majority of users.
     
  6. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    I agree with this.
    According to latest user posts in this forum most (non-VR) users experience 50% FPS loss in rain.
     
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  7. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    So following your logic it was a bad move from S397 to fix the VR rain performance bug which made it impossible to race in rain in VR (FPS was like a slideshow in VR before the fix) ?

    EDIT: BTW, according to @MarcG (who is one of the few who really does performance tests with numbers) single screen users did benefit of this fix too. Looking at MarcG's numbers with a speedup of 80% at min FPS at pit straight. see https://forum.studio-397.com/index....-1110-now-available.59808/page-43#post-951622
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  8. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    @Ari Antero following your logic again, I hope you will never suffer from a bug you are in the minority. Because according to your logic S397 should not fix that bug. And because of the the nature of diversity of PC hardware you probably will often be in a minority.
     
  9. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    It's a joke. 80%? I did not see any differences. In the best case and in an ideal world, 5-7%.

    S397 has deliberately chosen to improve the rain problems for a minority of users who usually have hardware already advantageous, while the vast majority of users have very big performance problems also with the rain, which remains a huge non optimization problem in RF2 (to which we must add: sunset/sunrise/night, mirrors etc.)
     
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  10. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    @DrivingFast What advantage of hardware VR users have when they have around 20 FPS in rain? Sorry, 20 FPS is unusable.
    What FPS in rain (min, avg, max) you had with previous build and now with new build? What is your architecture (CPU, GPU..)
    If it is anything like MarcG's numbers (who seems to be the only one who presents numbers) avg at pit straight 143 FPS before and 173 FPS after in single screen. I wouldn't call 143 FPS a problem at all compared to 20 FPS in VR.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  11. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    I have always been minority regarding hardware in this community. I don`t remember getting any support from you when I was asking Nvidia and SLI profile few years back in time. rF2 has old bug when PCIe 3.0@ x8 x8 is used. There is lot of post about PCIe 3.0@ x8/PCIe 2.0@ x16 performance and it is not SLI bug only. The funny thing is that I don`t remember any support or post from you to get PCIe bug fixed.
    Now you are VR owner (minority) and are felling that VR should be prioritized over common user. What kind of logic is that?
     
  12. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    @Ari Antero Of course you always have been a minority. Exactly that is what I have tried to tell you, cause of the nature of diversity of PC hardware everyone is a minority. That's one of the reasons your logic makes no sense to me: "Don't fix bugs of people who are in a minority ( ,although everyone is in a minority)".

    When you say: "I don`t remember getting any support from you ..", "I don`t remember any support or post from you .."
    When you write that do you actually mean "ME"' or do you mean ISI/S397? I don't know.

    In case you really ask ME not helping you with your PCIe problems. Did you help me with my VR rain problems when I and others were not being able to even race in rain?? Well, you didn't help me, but interestingly you even started to argument in public that S397 never should help me and other VR users with serious problems, because I and other useres are a minority!! (like you are and everyone else here is)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  13. Skan

    Skan Registered

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    If any of you have the exact same hardware as I do, there are some noticeable gains and other things to smile about. While these settings are not going to impress anyone, this is much higher than I was able to run it before.
     

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  14. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Reflections and Shadows at high are def. some settings that will make most peoples hardware struggle, if they don't have very good systems. People who expect to run the game maxed out at more than Full HD with mid spec hardware need to rethink their approach a bit. And requesting to run 40 or 50 cars at night with rain and to expect it to run it smooth at over 60 fps makes be wonder where people are taking those figures from. Aren't people realizing that we are really scratching borderline resolutions and fidelity with racing sims? It is like as if I was requesting to run ArmA III maxed out with at a rock solid 120 fps with my Phenom. Sorry guys, but this is not gonna happen. There is a clear reason why sim racing devs started to limit their maximum number of cars on track. I am still surprised that I am able to run over 30 cars in dry conditions with my calculator and even a test with the full ELMS grid from Enduracers with over 40 cars worked to my surprise.

    I still have the feeling that there is some headroom for visual quality and performance, but it def. shows that the game has come a long way since the switch to DX11. Anyone remembers the game being unplayable in the first DX11 beta due to simple overcast conditions? It should give most people some confidence that we are discussing the performance at night with thunder storms and 40 cars on track now. It is not there yet, but def. getting there. When I made my first test with the Howstens at historic Monza with around 10 cars after the first rain update it was barely playable. Now I am able to run twenty cars in the rain and it runs pretty decent, even with PP at medium. So I hope that people with bigger problems will get their issues sorted at one point. But we should apply realsitic expectations.
     
  15. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    You write lot of nonsense. I never wrote that S397 never should help you or other VR users with serious problems because you and them are a minority. What I wrote is that everybody is suffering huge fps lost when weather (rain) option`s are used. I find it strange that rain optimization is only to VR elite and not to the common user at all. VR elite is minority in Rf2 and should not have benefits over majority of users and that is logic.o_O
    I have also read post from @MarcG about single screen test (Latest Update, Steam Build ID 2919230) (no file attachment) which is a placebo and it is effort to justify latest VR rain update by the obvious reason :rolleyes:. Majority of this community is reporting huge FPS lost when weather rain options are used. ;)
     
  16. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    You want numbers?
    70 FPS in dry = 30 FPS in rain.
    I am having the same performance with this build as with previous build.
    Single screen.

    Except one or two users nobody reported any improvements on single screen and several people reported no change.
    Correct me if I am wrong
     
  17. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    @Ari Antero:
    So, reading your posts:
    1. You don't like it when bugs get fixed for a minority (VR) when you are not in that minority.
    2. You don't like it when bugs not get fixed for a minority (SMP, PCIe) when your are in that minority.
    What does that tell us? -> You only like it when bugs get fixed when you are affected. (minority or not is irrelevant)
    OK, then we are done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  18. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    @Ari Antero , I feel there are differences between various of your requests as regards priority. You have suggested you wanted S397 to create a solution using SMP, which is only available on Nvidia 10 series GPUs and thus spending time on developing this doesn't benefit anyone with 9 series Nvidia nor AMD GPUs. In this particular instance, whilst SMP was highly touted as being a game-changer with 10 series, in fact it has proven to be a bit of a flop. iRacing lead dev Shawn Nash added this, and they were very disappointed in it not really doing what it said on the tin. Yes, it improves performance a lot over the regular method, but there are many downsides and I think if he chose again, he'd not have spent time on it (and lots of people over there keep asking him to improve that, as well). I think overall VR does have more importance than single screen users or triples users, despite there being more single screen users. VR is such a natural fit for sim racing, and its one of those items which is likely a game-changer for anyone lucky enough to have it; in the same way, moving from a controller/keyboard to a wheel/pedals is. As a forerunner, I used TrackIR and the ability to move your head and change viewpoint (look to apex) was a big change; I'm glad they added it but I've no reason to expect they should. Just look at the attacks on Codemasters who still are not going to add VR to F1 2018; all the good sims have VR support now and this needs to be as good as it can be because its a showcase for the title. In a similar vein, it would not be reasonable for users to request S397 support every graphics API (directx, opengl, vulkan) just because someone has a preference for it or it works better on one given piece of hardware. This is going to be a subjective decision by the devs because the facts aren't going to be the only determinant of what gets priority in this instance. I also don't think the full Steam community is a great source of all facts here because I believe sim racer community probably have better hardware and more extensive use of VR than the full community.

    BTW, I'm a single screen user. I have seen a significant improvement in rain and even rain+day/night transition; rain is now playable with a reasonable number of AI cars during normal running (a race start may cause issues) but rain+day/night is still a step too far. I am not seeing a 50% drop in fps when enabling rain only; its less, maybe 30% or so. This applies with both GT3 pack and the FR3.5, though of course fps is much better with the latter; 120-130fps at Silverstone drops to maybe 85-90. I've run the scripted weather that starts with storm/cloudy and ends up to dry/clear within about 15-20 minutes of running (track is still fully wet, but I can turn off the wipers). Trying to do that at 7:30-8:00pm as the sun sets is just a bit much and that is dropping to maybe 60.
     
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  19. C. Banger

    C. Banger Registered

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    I read this 3 times and I'm still confused.. you acknowledge rain is causing huge FPS loss for everyone - then say you find it strange optimisation is only for 'VR elite'? I think this is where you are getting muddled. The rain optimisation is not only for VR users - as you keep saying. Even 'common users' are seeing benefits.
     
  20. stonec

    stonec Member

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    I only tested rain briefly with the worst-case scenario (start grid, 20 GT3 cars). Before update I got 38 FPS single screen, now 40-41 FPS. Test was repeated several times, so there was real improvement, but only 5-7%. Maybe in some other scenario (which is probably what MarcG tested) there would be more improvement. I always test start grid because it's where the FPS is at its lowest and pretty much decides what settings I can use.
     

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