[REL] NEW! Endurance Pack - Now Available!

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Oops, pardon me please; I obviously accidentally stepped into a competition based conversation where I don't belong. You've successfully exposed me as an average guy! ;):D

    I don't mean to suggest that everyone that is a fast Sim-racer is cheating or gaming the system - not at all. I know that people with extraordinary abilities exist in all walks of life, whether it be by natural talent or the shear will to learn through dedication, hard work and development of skills.

    The only person I feel compelled to compete with is myself. I'm not a super-fast driver at all, mid-pack at best on a good day. I play for immersion, what some call "pretending" to be a good driver and I'm fine with that. I learn and practice race-craft too, not because I believe I will ever be a pro but, because it's a lifelong fantasy of mine and something I enjoy. I have far too many personal limitations to ever qualify in RL racing and have learned to accept that at me age.

    The fact remains, there is always a way to cheat the system if that is the goal and every game has something that can be exploited for advantage. It happens in RL racing too - hopefully, not very often. Lord knows, it happens in politics every day.
     
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  2. Nielsen

    Nielsen Registered

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    Hey guys lets lower the blood pressure a bit here :D
    Because I want to persuade some of the really stubborn downshift LOVERS here to test out how Raceroom have destroyed any fun driving their Porsche Cayman by installing this restrictive shift down tool.
    By installing I mean "really installing" it;)
    You can test it out completely for free (free Raceroom sim program + free test out of the Cayman - or any other car).
    Hehe and then report back here how absolutely phantastico this tool can be configured to work by some uber eager sim developers.:cool:
     
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  3. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Nielsen One example of a poor implementation doesn't make the mere idea a failure.
     
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  4. Nielsen

    Nielsen Registered

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    No. And I havent seen anybody postulating that in the posts above:)
     
  5. Kevin Ryan

    Kevin Ryan Registered

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    The problem for me with downshift protection is that you even end up abusing the downshift protection. In an online race situation, you hit the downshift button as many times as possible until you get down to the gear you want. Probably like 10 times to get down 3 gears. If it's added it should be an option in the tuning menu.
     
  6. Nielsen

    Nielsen Registered

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    Yeah quite honestly I would prefer that too.
    But taken from some of the posts above then 90% (or 99% ;) ) of users would disable it - because it will in some situ give them an advantage. :D
     
  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I don't agree. Braking as late as possible and getting into a corner properly relies on a consistent level of engine braking in many cars. Mashing a downshift button/lever until you get to the right gear is anything but consistent, and could easily lead to you entering a corner in the wrong gear. Unless you're not anywhere near the edge of performance (hence my 'driving miss daisy' comment earlier) that is going to seriously hamper your performance.

    Any fast drivers are doing controlled downshifts. Some of those are downshifting unrealistically early, but they're still doing it consistently. Downshift protection done realistically will have no impact on drivers doing things properly and won't give any advantage to people trying to do otherwise - it will affect their driving in a bad way.

    @Nielsen Can you explain your point above? You want people to try a restrictive implementation of DSP in a game; what's the goal? Whose mind are you going to change/affect if we assume that the particular implementation you're referring to is poorly done, and hopefully wouldn't happen here?
     
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  8. Kevin Ryan

    Kevin Ryan Registered

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    @Lazza Yes but no. What I'm describing is actually the fastest and most consistent way to downshift when using DSP. You can't shift a gear too low because the DSP prevents that from happening. When you hit the downshift as many times as possible, you actually get the same or very close to the same downshift point every time because you get the downshift as soon as the DSP allows it instead of guessing when the DSP is going to allow you to downshift.

    It's a bit counter intuitive but it works. Try raceroom if you don't believe me.
     
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  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @datboi You may well be right actually. I tend to think in terms of fast gearchanges like F1 cars, where I think that strategy would be less effective, but I can see in GT cars etc it might work. I'm still not sure it would be any better than just learning to shift (once!) at the right point, but I can see how it might be the easier option for less experienced drivers. You could perhaps have a repeat-shift delay that would make that approach less effective, but then that makes the occasional DSP intervention even more annoying for 'normal' drivers. Interesting.
     
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  10. Bernd

    Bernd Registered

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    This theme should have it's own thread.
    I would prefer to have the engine lifetime better working and, more important, to have it better set by car modders.
    There are too many mods with that you can rev 30000 RPM without damaging the engine noticable.
    In real life, an engine would be death immediately if you do that.
    I remember people, that downshiftet at full throttle from the highest gear to gear one, pushing the key that was assigned to gear one.
    You could easily identify these people coming from behind, when the corner came closer, at the loud and painful screeming engine.
    If the people, using this technique, were punished with a broken engine immediately, some discussions would be unnecessary.
     
  11. goffred

    goffred Registered

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    I'm a bit slow (on the track as well as off it!), I have been working away for weeks. I have only just got this pack.

    WOW. It is really good. The sim is running so much better than before as well. This is just some feedback to the devs, that your product is showing the results of the large effort you must be putting in. Thanks. I for one am thoroughly enjoying the experience.
     
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  12. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I haven't really been following too closely so I don't really know what the big issue is. If the car has downshift protection in real life put it in the sim, if it doesn't have it, don't put it in. I don't see anything wrong with downshifting through the gears aggressively to gain an advantage, as the same thing can be done in real life. However just as long as the sim is also simulating the damage to the drive train/engine.
     
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  13. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    That aspect is definitely missing to some extent, the damage parameters even in just the engine don't really allow for 'common sense' major damage in extreme situations (it does, to some extent, but more flexibility would be very welcome). DSP certainly shouldn't be used as a substitute for engine damage, and anyone worrying about that happening I do agree with, I just don't think the devs would do that (and I don't see that concern being relevant to real cars with DSP, and DSP as a whole).
     
  14. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    This ! 100% agree , thank you to all those who drive Sims to try and Simulate as accurately as possible and avoiding exploits .
    I know its just a game but it's as close as i can ever get to driving a GTE car and I'm trying to replicate as close as possible to the people who are lucky enough too in real life .
    Bring on all or no aids , whatever is real ! Minus the death, pain ,expense and carnage that is truly a part of real racing .
     
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  15. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Man I love vintage cars , i love using my clutch and h pattern shifter and try to shift as fast as possible while sometimes blowing the engine with a flurry of Fire flowing in my mirrors and love it but when driving a car with ABS irl or TC irl I'll enable it ! If i dont know what assists the car has irl i Google it :p
    DP is no different but maybe there could be a toggle option for people who would rather not have it but then there should be some adverse side effect encouraging users to stay within the safe rev range .
     
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  16. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    That's really cool ! How did you get that telemetry ?
     
  17. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    DAM plugin + motec.
     
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  18. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    intersting things is that a racing game to simulate engine damage from wrong downshifting
    DSP implemented to games the last 2 years yes?
    so if i go from high gear with high rev to a much lower gear i must somehow damage my engine
    so after a few laps i ll have a dead engine with that driving attitude
    i m against exploiting a game that way to have faster laps
    its unreal
    engine breaks and car goes to oversteer because of forces.
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    rF/rF2 engine damage modelling only has 1 set of parameters for RPM. You can set those up so that overrevving will very quickly kill the engine (and hitting 30k or similar will immediately break it) but because of the way it does it, that then means any sort of underrevving will basically make the engine unbreakable. It's pretty much impossible to avoid exploits in one way or another. Depending on the car the back end breaking away can be a bigger deterrent.

    Most rF2 cars start damaging the engine with RPM when you get close to maximum RPM, so on the limit driving will kill it faster than conservative, and while more extreme RPM will kill it faster it's often not fast enough to avoid that sort of driving especially over one lap.

    Preferably the engine damage modelling would have 2-3 possible parameter ranges, that don't overlap and affect each other, then you can more easily have some light damage with normal driving, heavier damage with on-the-limit driving, and catastrophic damage when silly RPM are hit. It wouldn't be a massive change from what we have now.
     
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  20. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    yeah something that makes sense
     

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