Moving From VR (Rift) Back to Triples. Need Help with Monitor Choice

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ClintW, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. ClintW

    ClintW Registered

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    Thanks for everyone's help so far. I have decided to run an experiment before investing in three new monitors. This is what im planning...

    I found two identical 24 inch 1920x1080 monitors second-hand yesterday. I already had one, so now i have three 24inch 1920x1080s. They are only 60hz monitors but that's ok for the experiment. My goal is to determine the following;

    1. Set them up nice and close to the wheel so get 1:1 scale. If im happy with the peripheral vision i get from the 24s then i know i dont need 27s. Im also aware that 27 at 1080p may appear grainier so if i am happy with the 24s that will be a good outcome.
    2. Test the frame rate fluctuations i get in a number of different situations. I want to be taking advantage of the awesome weather effects in rFactor2. I also want to be able to race large ai grids. If i get a large variation in max and min frame rates then i know its worth me getting G-Sync. My gut feel and from what i have read and the advice from many people is that its well worth it. Im just in the process of justifying spending the money on G-Sync at the moment.
    My suspicion is that i will be happy with the FOV and peripheral i can achieve with the 24s and that my frame-rates will fluctuate enough to justify G-Sync within Fractor2 and all its glory.

    If i settle on 24 g-sync then im happy to invest in something like this ASUS PG248Q ROG Swift 24inch.

    Its slightly above my budget but i can justify the benefits of spending the $$$ after my experiment.

    If im not happy with the 24s and i dont get significant frame rate fluctuations then ill reconsider my options.

    If im happy with the "experiment 24 inch minitors" then im even better off, because ive spend very little money. also I can always re sell them if i choose to get the G-Sync and i haven't lost out.

    That's the plan, ill let you know the outcomes :)
     
  2. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @ClintW I would be very curious to know how close you need the monitors to feel comfortable with the peripheral vision (horizontally and vertically).

    Worth mentioning - and Christopher alluded to this earlier - with FHD screens at a given FOV, larger screens aren't any more grainy, they're just farther away. So if you can achieve a target 1:1 FOV with 24", you'll gain nothing with 27". The 27s might just be easier to place physically as you'd have more room.
     
  3. ClintW

    ClintW Registered

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    From what i have read, just under a hand length from the front of the wheel rim is what ill be aiming for and sitting the monitor on my wheel base so that i can see in car display. I also have a wheel extension tupe i could use if my wheel base gets in the way. Thats something i love about Rfactor2 over Iracing, is the ability to turn off the wheel and driver arms! so that your physical wheel is the only one.
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Ok, to rephrase my question: I'll be curious to know if the 24" screens at that distance give you enough peripheral vision, or you feel you'd need 27s. If the 24s are fine, 27s will either give you more peripheral vision you don't feel you need, or can sit further away.

    To look at it another way - if the 24s at that distance feel too cramped, you can temporarily try to get them closer until you feel comfortable with your range of vision. Then you can work out whether 27s will be suitable at the distance you've described, or you'd need even bigger. You provide an interesting test case because you're coming from VR, whereas most people getting triples are coming from a single screen and everything is an improvement. If you identify a FOV that is enough for you, it would probably be a good target for people generally - not forgetting of course everyone's different.

    (in all of this I'm assuming 1:1 FOV, true perspective)
     
  5. ClintW

    ClintW Registered

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    Good points Lazza, that makes sense. I'm planning to be finished today so ill post the results if i get it all done. I've made a custom monitor stand so i have heaps of flexibility the move them around, adjust angles, distance etc etc.
     
  6. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    The last week or so I've been thinking of changing the angles of my 24" monitors from 45º to 60º keeping the centre monitor 650mm away from my eyes.
    So I'm interested in hearing what you do Clint.
    If it wasn't for the fact I have to take the side monitors off and modify the 4 ally brackets to achieve 60º I would have already tried it.
    I think the 24" monitors may be a bit small for 60º but I have a feeling I'll find out soon.
     
  7. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    I have been running VR for years now and I know what you mean. I also have 27" triples and I can't get them close enough for a good 1:1 feel. When I measure everything the top of the windshield is cut off, plus I can't see any gauges very well.
    I am tempted to get 32 or bigger TV's from Wal-Mart but instead of putting them end to end, fit them up and down. I find the 27's to be more than wide enough but I want to see the viser plus all my gauges for a true 100% 1:1 feel.
    I haven't seen anyone do this yet!
    PS places like Wal-Mart have great return policies just as long as everything is packed so try some different combinations.
    Oh PPS there are invisible bezel stips coming or just on the market now.

    https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/08/asus-gaming-monitor-rog-bezel-free-keyboard-strix-flare/
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  8. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    You need only mirrors to hide bezel. You can buy kit from Frex (6,458YEN) or do it self it is easy ;)
     
  9. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    After watching that video I know they are one item I wouldn't want.
    I think, from what the video shows, the misaligned image on the mirror would be more distracting than the black line of the bezel.
    My bezels are only 6mm wide. I hardly notice them.
    I can only imagine how fussy I will be when looking for my next set of monitors.
     
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  10. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    From my understanding of a proper fov,you shouldn’t be able to see the gauges or top of windscreen,in real life you have to look down or up to see them,that’s why calculated fovs don’t show them.

    Pls correct me if I’m wrong
     
  11. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    There are a few variables that spring to mind that would effect what is displayed on the monitor for a "proper fov".
    The starting point would be the x,y,z coordinates of the drivers eyes.
    Race cars are all about low centre of gravity so the seat is mounted as low as possible and for example the V8 Supercars it is mounted further back and towards the centre for safety.
    Height of windscreen.
    I'm sure there is more but, in my opinion, saying that a proper fov means you shouldn't see the top of windscreen or dash gauges is not true.
     
  12. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    We have 220 degrees horizontal and about half that vertical so I definitely see the top of the windshield and gauges. So much so that I was wishing I could dim the gauges in VR sometimes.
     
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  13. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I think you're approaching this the wrong way. FOV itself doesn't determine what you can (should) see, your monitors do. Your screens are your window into the world, and with true perspective this is literally true. You should be able to see what windows the same shape, size, and distance would show you in real life. So it all depends on the car you're in and where you put the screens.

    Imagine yourself sitting in a real car, then picture where 24" screens out of arms' reach would sit, and probably you wouldn't see the gauges or the ceiling. So for those screens at that distance, and in a similar car, you won't see them either. But if you place your screens closer, or have bigger screens, or indeed orient them vertically, you increase your field of vision and can see more. It's like you're sitting in a cardboard box with cutouts the size of your screen(s) allowing you to see things.

    Dials/gauges would appear to be fairly difficult as they tend to live behind the wheel, meaning your wheel will literally get in the way of the screen. Definite advantage to VR there. (assuming you set your horizon correctly. If you're happy to be 'looking up' you can make your gauges visible) But that's what virtual gauges are for.

     
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  14. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    What about trackir? Someone use it with triples? I use it on my single monitor, very very good addition.
     
  15. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    this is abetter solution for bezel free view than the one posted before (no mirrors but light refraction or sorta).
    About track IR, EdTracker Pro, etc stuff on triples, if you set them properly, no lateral movement, only up-down and lean left-right minor movements allowed, it helps a lot for immersion too.
     
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  16. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    That's what I linked earlier.
    Looks pretty good! I wouldn't mind trying.
     
  17. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    I was talking of Ari Antero post;)
     
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  18. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Yeah I agree. That mirror thing not sure?
     
  19. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Asus Bezel-free kit is made to small bezels and obviously don`t fit to older monitors with wider bezel.
    I was using many years back in time single mirror like in video below to hide my bezel`s and it was not bad solution in my opinion.
     
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  20. ClintW

    ClintW Registered

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    Sorry its taken so long to provide an update but I have been playing around a fair bit with the triple setup (24s 1920x1080@60hz) and have some findings.

    With the game set to mostly medium and some high settings i get 43-138 fps with 20 cars in an ai race at Adelaide. I figure this is pretty much as taxing as it gets (i find Adelaide hits performance in two sections). In rain i get 32-102fps with 20 cars at Adelaide.

    I think im happy with the in care area view the 24s cover. I assume that if i set them up correctly (they are 520mm from my eyes) the game will make it a 1:1 ratio (it feels right anyway). I think 27 would be ideal as i would get all the review mirror and more of the dash display in. I can obviously work around this with onscreen overlays.

    With these fps variations i can see why people have been recommending G-sync and i think if i dont get it i will always be noticing the tearing.

    I think i will invest in 3 of these Acer Predator XB241H monitors.

    My other option is these 27s but they are 4ms monitors and im nervous about the 27inch 1080 and curved.

    This is the thing...I have also tested it in iracing and am able to fully max every setting! and still achieve 100-130fps. At slightly lower than max settings i get up to 200fps. I havnt tested in a race yet but im predicting i will loose 50-70fps. So, i could if i was exclusively using iracing potentially go 1440 monitors but i dont think i would get away with this in rFactor. I think this result reflects some advice i received earlier in the thread.

    Hope this is useful info.

    Thanks for everyone's help so far.
     
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