Modding support, paid items, making content unique, etc

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by Will Mazeo, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. DaREALMastaD

    DaREALMastaD Registered

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    I think idea 1 and 2 are basically 3Ds Max, 3DsimED, ZModeler, Blender etc, complex applications on their own to tune models etc. so I'm not sure how much 397 would invest in this area. They had gJED which was pretty much a viewer but as stated by 397 "We have removed gJED, as we feel the tool in its current state did not meet our quality standards." Number 3 I mainly agree with fsuarez79. If it doesn't exist or it does, it doesn't take away resources (people) from a quality mod anyway as those who are modding might just be trying to get a model in game and not using it for profit. I love the ability to import models into a function vehicle rather than a stationary model to view without having to design an application to run said model even if it's just a personal mod.

    My daughter downloads a ton of Sims 4 unofficial content that actually sometimes surpasses what is official lol, sometimes it doesn't match the quality. Back to #1, it would be a nice feature though, something to make it more streamline into rFactor.
     
  2. TheGame316

    TheGame316 Registered

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    I will apologise for the length in advance.

    1. - Not sure what you are wanting here but we already have this. Mod Dev mode. Plugins for Max. I would like to see more official support for plugins for up to date versions, free alternatives.
    2. - Once again mod dev has always had shaders etc contained. It just needs to be kept up to date. What I believe needs to be done(and is slowly starting to happen with the developers guide) is proper guidelines to achieve a certain standard of work.
    3. - As others have stated, this would be the worst thing to happen. McNolo summs this up nicely.
    4 & 5 - You are effectively describing the 3PA program. And honestly I don't think the program worked. Off the top of my head I don't think any of the content has been updated officially(I think woochoo said Longford coming soon). Involving a monetary charge for this opens a huge can of worms when it comes to game engine updates breaking content.
    6. - How would you feel if you created free(or even paid) quality content, only to find out that an official licensed version is to be released and your content is no longer welcome on the workshop, especially if you had a system described in point 3.

    As it is you can already request mods on workshop that are known rips to be removed and have already seen this happen if you keep up to date with the forums regarding a certain F1 mod. However everybody has their own morals when it comes to ripped content. Some choose not to use it at all, others will use any and all. I think the majority of users fall somewhere in between.

    You say that your ideas would bring tracks with much better quality and faster pace than what we have now, but how??

    S397 content release and update schedule is glacial. And they are not the behemoth that Codies and others are when it comes to licensing so obtaining certain popular licenses would be virtually impossible.

    Let's look at current and upcoming paid licensed content. How many of these vehicles or tracks have you actually seen the community call for, or interest in, BEFORE they were announced. The only one I can think of is the Porsche.

    Now look at what people have requested a lot. Nords? Spa? a modern F1?
    In the case of the modern F1, I believe we will only ever see 1 car of that ilk(ala Marussia), which would rely on outside modders to provide the rest of the series(another frequent request - a complete series with full complement of vehicles and tracks) but will never get licensing due to FOM.
    As for tracks? It makes sense officially that track releases suit the vehicle releases. So in that case, a current official Le Mans makes more sense than any other track(the upcoming Sebring makes sense as well to some extent). But then you have to look at whether the cost of licensing and dev work can be covered by sales; and provide some form of profit to advance capabilities to attract more interest.

    Another concern that I am noticing with official content release is that I can see effectively the same overall content being sold to us multiple times. Take the upcoming Porsche GTE. You know that this will end up being in a future GT3 pack. Another possible license that could have the same ability to sell like this would be the Honda/Acura NSX - under GT3 spec and also as a second GT500 car.

    The end result(point 7) you are describing effectively is a closed system, which would eliminate the need for a lot of your previous points; as only authorised modders would need access to the tools. This drops the available pool of modders, so how will content release increase?
     
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  3. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    No, there wouldn't exist "authorized modders", these choosen ones would be to cover tracks used by major racing series around the world that wont be licensed (NASCAR, Supercars, Super GT for example). Everyone else can still mod and build their stuff there as long as it's scratch made and built using 100% of materials, textures, etc distributed by S397. So yes, that increase quality content and player base if they can get in there and find properly done mods (obviously it's still possible to do poor stuff this way, but chances get smaller)
    Points are made in a order of implementation, you cant go for 7 all at once. I'd say from point 3 to 7 it should take a year to be implemented giving time for modders to update their work. Point 3 alone shouldn't be done without at least a warning 6 months before it happens.

    Well a Porsche GTE and GT3 are different cars so yeah you pay for them twice regardless, NSX is even worse as one is done by Honda North America (from HPD) and the other from Honda Japan (which is, AFAIK, much harder to get). I doubt any agency dealing with this stuff will sell you a single license for all the models of a brand for the same price as if you license only one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 12:05 PM
  4. McNolo

    McNolo Registered

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    As far as I know, the new S397 store will only have quality content, so in that sense there will be no problems.
     
  5. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    Looking to Catherams story not sure about this sentence...
     
  6. McNolo

    McNolo Registered

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    Believe me, it is 100% reliable information.
     
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  7. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    What about Caterhams?
     
  8. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Would like to know that too
     
  9. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    Lol sorry cross posting, my fault, lol I was talking about Radicals and the lack of AI talent files, Caterhams was another topic on another forum, I mixed things (going to check the other forum too lol)
     
  10. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Inside the game? How? Are they going to build a 3DS Max? The current complexity of the rF2 phisics makes this IMHO impossible.
    In less than 10 minutes you can extract the textures of a circuit with Mas2.exe. The shaders are well explained in the Dev Guide.
    And what are going to do the leagues that need to adapt a car to their champs?
    What are going to do the F1 leagues? (for example)
    If S397 choose a modder or modding group to make a track and, in the furure, they can get the license, what are they going to do?
    • They don't make the circuit because they gave permissions to the modders to make that track, in the past .
    • They make the track and the work of the modders go to the trash.
    OK, the way to buy the content has to be easy. But let the modders to choose the price of their work, please.
    Who is going to work hundreds of hours, knowing that at any time, that work can de unusable?
    And people who can't find the cars or tracks they like, will go to other sim.

    And a final thing.
    The modders need to learn, and the usual way to learn is step by step. Nobody can make a good car or track from the beginning. If we don't have the current packages system and only the best modders can publish their content in the workshop. How are the new modders going to learn?
     
  11. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Nothing stops a new modder from learning in that system. They can upload their tracks/cars just fine, upload in private mode for development if dont want it to go public, easy.
    Adjusting a car for a league needs is something I actually proposed for the new UI back when they made public a new one was coming, obviously that wont open the whole hdv for you, but could allow even encrypted content like the GT3 to have options for leagues an admin can edit. No idea if devs will do it.
    Yes if a track/car is licensed the non license mod is removed. For a more stable future S397 should make a list of what they intend to license but obviously things change and so do lists :D
    A system like this makes easier for a 3rd party (and S397 themselves) to go for a license if they know their job wont compete with ripped assets from other games distributed for free, more stable income for people looking at going pro.
    Every side wins sooner or later, even those used to use stuff from other games.
     
  12. filippu

    filippu Registered

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    But you sure do like to post again and again and again about your "idea". We got it. Besides, if you find that modding stuff isn't on par with your incredibly high standards, just don't download 3rd party content. It's that easy.
    If you had any little clue about modding, and what's happening behind the scenes, you'd realize how far off the mark you are.
    As usual in here, the ones talking the most are the ones that have no idea.
     
  13. filippu

    filippu Registered

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    No, you're wrong. Everything S397 does is awesome, especially when they sell WIPs.
     
  14. pixsim

    pixsim Member

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    For me I don't believed than the community could help modders, I can speak about my personnal experience.
    I have received 45 € of donation for all my life of modder (on RF1 ( charade , ALpine A 364 and RF2 and for original content ex Lola T280 , Nogaro) I have spent more money, really more in software. But I have done the choice of free modding. SimRacing commuity doesn't spend money ( or my work was not enought good),
    RF2 is more complex than AC or RF1 with less public visibility, and need more time,
    So don't be suprise if you have less and less modders for original contents on RF2.
    The modders Who are enough good to go pro, they stop free/public modding (not my case)
    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 6:14 PM
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  15. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    What you are porposing would be the end of many modders and leagues.
    The current system is important for the modders, to obtain feedback. You need a lot of people testing the tracks and cars to improve the content. If it's forbiden to publish the unfinished content, how are the modders going to test their content?
    If there is a way to upload the content in a private mode, we'll have the current content in that system and will be shared in that way.
    If S397 publish a list of the cars/tracks to buy, the prices of the licenses will rise. They're not going to do this, and as a result, the modders will not work in a content that can go to the trash.
    Every side wins? I don't think so.
     
  16. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    It's not exactly about helping, more like if you had a system like this and sold for $1 for example (not counting Steam fee, and let's say in these cases S397 does not take any $) you'd have done more than that. Of course you chose to give it for free and I respect that.
    Yes I do know some stuff about behind the scenes and how modders are not satisfied and are leaving this platform, been told about that by more than one person.

    You can upload to Steam workshop in private (you can do that now already), testing is no issue and considering the game would not install content that does not come from the workshop (in theory) it'd make a lot more secure to do tests.
    If the work of the modder is good enough they may be bought by S397 themselves or a 3rd party in case of a license. As I said plans change and so do lists, they dont need to say all, only things that already have a deal, the whole idea is just a draft, changes may be obviosly needed if by miracle something like this would happen.
     
  17. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Modders need people installing their mods to test. The more people testing a mod, the quicker the development is.
    rF2 is a modding platform.
    To make more difficult the learning process is not a good idea.
     
  18. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    This is what I don't like to be honest...
    RF2 should be a complete and content/features packed SIM only after should be seen as modding platform.
    Modding should be a plus not the main purpose, market says this rF1 times ended long time ago, ISI lost the momentum, people wants a solid base, content able to engage them and then modding will come as we saw in other titles...
     
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  19. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

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    That would've been a great idea back in 2013. It's a little too late for that. Kill the current "unofficial" mods and rips and people will go somewhere else.
     
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  20. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Not if they are replaced (or at least part of them gets replaced while showing the rest will come with proper quality) before they get killed.
     

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