Mod Management Software

Petros Mak

Petros Mak

Registered
As some of you may know we had announced the desire to build a software to help artists sell their creative art in mod form (own design stuff) but this received a number of mixed reviews. While some supported it, others didn't and this prompted us to have a sit down and discussion on if it is indeed the best thing for us to do right now. The decision has come that the concept of pay mods for the sim-racing community right this moment might not be the best thing to do, so I started brainstorming on what we could change it to that could benefit the community and I came up with an idea which I wanted to share and see what you all thought.

Currently the community does not have a site to get all their mods at as well as notifications and updates. rFCentral is not used by many of the big named groups, and other games do not have sites of similar stature like rFC to provide mods to their players. My idea is to develop a website and software that would host multiple games and allow mod groups to post their mods similar to the method used by rFCentral, (with various differences), and allow players to use the listed links by the mod group to download the mods as well as keeping an in-house link on our servers to ensure links don't ever break and mods are not lost in time.

Let me detail some of the thoughts.

The idea is to develop a website that would work as a hub for finding all your mod needs. Think of the structure similar to that of rFCentral but more optimized and with more features. Supporting multiple games will be the big thing for this, each game will run off a subdomain/directory which will work with the same account, so you won't have to register multiple times. An Android/iOS app is also intended in order to provide notifications while you are on the go. Players will be able to set a specific mod or track or any add on to be watched, which will notify the user via email and (depending if they have activated it) via the Android/iOS app that a new version of the mod has been released.

The biggest problem I see that has existed in many older games and will exist in rf2 and future games is that there is no easy way to get updates on when a mod is updated. Unless you go manually looking at the mods websites or rFC to see if the mod has been updated, there is really no other way. This site will not only provide a hub, but it would also provide the features to allow automatic notifications of any updates for add ons you have selected to be updated for.

A whole new rating system and HOF system. Rating system that just shows a site score and review (similar to the rating system used by gamespot) as well as a user score (combined average of all user scores) and allowing user reviews (which WILL be moderated strictly). HOF we thought of having the system work not with a voting system, but rather a downloads system. If a mod reaches a specific number of "Unique" downloads, then it enters the hall of fame, or even by end of year HOF voting. This could be something the community can give ideas on.

The entire purpose however is to provide a base where people can go to find mods and find group websites (mod pages having links to the groups website which mod admin can set via their admin panel) as well as acquire notifications of updates. I think this would provide a great service for the community for keeping up to date with their favorite mods.

Should we get the support to do something like this, later on it could be expanded with further software to show which mods have been played the most, members have done the most laps, what mods each member has, etc etc to make it more interactive.

What do you all think of this system? Would this be something you would support?
 
This concept isn't new. It was the base thoughts of Mombassa when he first started rFCentral way back when. Sites like this will only survive with community support which is what brought rFC down. Support meaning money! The donation system clearly doesn't work or we'd still have rFC as the hub describe in the above post. So saying this there's going to be a cost, so there's going to be a fee. We all know it's time we stop expecting things for nothing. I'm sure if rFC got the community support from the start it would have expanded into other game platforms long before now.

It's been talked about in this thread http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/9011-UnitedRacingDesing-presents were it's time our hard work gets more then just thanks, As modders we're not apposed to reaping some reward of the financial kind considering the time and resources used to produce these mods. Good, bad or indifferent they are still a lot of work.

So before I go on let's revalue the UnitedRacingDesign proposal.
The thread start with.... Haha.. now let's just read between the lines here.
Ok the first impression is similar to this one we're being asked to consider but the underlying thing that I'm sure going on the reaction of most posters is that this guy Aless hasn't got a job and can't for what ever reason get one. Economic climate is the base line. So now after some weeks of thought he came up with you pay for mod, "Weeks of thought!" I get a percentage of those proceeds from every Track, Car/s and add-on so "I" don't have to work again.
This is the back bone of the first post.
It was obvious I wasn't the only one who saw this judging from the response.
Many posters asked about the actual people who did the work for these mods, Will they get their cut? Well no real answer came from Aless. Again turning opinion away from this concept.

The truth is Yes they will. The thing that gets me for one is (I know how much will be paid. Don't ask.) that I will still have to have a full time job just like all the other producers of the parts that go into making these mods because there's no way of producing the demanded quality required to sell them in a viable time span require to make a full time living. Hence the bad reaction to Aless's proposal. Plus the anger management displayed by the OP was less then one would expect from a person who sees himself in this role. Again alienating posters.

So Petros in a nut shell why Aless wasn't well received.

Back to the subject at hand.
All in all Yes we do want something like this. And should we pay for it. Me? Yes we should. A annual fee of $20 US because clearly donations don't work.

Problem! As we know rF2 has this ID system. Now I've explain my view on this a few time and with that view I also see a major problem. The ID itself.
Example. On this site is the original, with it's original ModID. If by some form of fate I can actually find a server that has still got the original ModID I'd be surprised. Ok that gose on & on...

So this side has it's Downloads in component form. Still see a problem, Sorry!
Servers are League owned, paid for, what ever the case. Leagues do now and will continue to change content and ModID will change along with it. End result, One person at any league will download a mod. there maybe 30, 40 + members but one will get the new mod if people are smart they will. Knowing there's going to be changes. This content is then setup for their league, given a ModID & VModID unique to that league. Then distributed to league members only. 99% of server will be lock because of this.

This isn't the end of the issues I see coming but basically your site want be able to supply the mods with IDs that work.
Hence the reason why rFC isn't having rF2 mods. The no end of HOW DO I's that would flood their site when people here who have been working with this stuff for as long as the release don't fully understand it or give the "correct" advice to questions. I say "correct" advice because I've seen answer from people that aren't as/how ISI have stated it should be, because it works for me!! Doesn't make it right!

For all the other format that use the KISS system your site will work. For rF2? Questionable.

(KISS System, Keep It Simple Stupid!)
 
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I just can't help myself when I see these posts.
Why do we need a site to tell us where all the mods are, the ISI forum is doing a great job at just that.
I,m sure there are plenty of modders out there that would like payment for their work, well good on them, let them charge a fee for their work, people will either buy it or they won't same as if you don't want to pay for a mod, then don't. Everyone is happy.

But why do we need to be told that this is the way modding is going to go, just like the Mayans ending the world in 2012.
There are plenty of modders that will still do their work for free or have a donation system, you say it doesnt work, what are you basing this on.
As far as I could read between the lines, people stopped going to RFC because it was taken over/sold to/I don't know what, by a commercial company, who then appearantly to different forum posts, started to use mods or work without acknowledging or rewarding those creators of said work.
When it was created, RFC worked and did for a long time. If the above proposal goes ahead, whats to say that money wont take over from that too.
For all the sugary sweetness that goes with these proposals, they aren't doing it for the good of the community, they are looking for rewards of some form. Otherwise their last proposal wouldnt have called for 50,000 bucks of donations to kick start it.
All the arguments under the sun about paying for RF2 in the 1st place won't cut it as we get from ISI, updates and extra content for the money we have already paid.
I am a nobody, simple as that, all I do is race RF1 in a league and once it is finalised, RF2 in a league.
I don't care if someone puts a price on their work or not. If I am not interested in it I wont look at it either way.
But the thing that really gets me worked up over these " community changing ideas " is that some people that want to tell us how things are going to be by keeping it simple stupid, show their own stupidity by posting things like " hen's " instead of hence, and "roll" instead of role.
Who wants to be shown this way...............
Why can't this forum stick to the improving of the game RF2 instead of becoming a site for all of these "great ideas for the community"
Thats what sites like VirtualR and F1Classic and No Grip are for isn't it, or are they too busy telling about all the new mods and updates coming out.
 
Get someone to do GPL , GTR , GTL, rF torrents. this would save so many sites bandwidth costs.

Example No Grip costs more then donations to run ........its pretty simple maths really.

For mine the biggest hassle with those is the last 3 and the different ways track were named and pathed.

Even VLM their tracks started with VLM instead of by name and year.

And a separate folder for Fantasy and Dirt and Rally and Novelty locations that everyone would use by default.

These sort of things made standard a decade ago would have helped.

Even rf2 is starting to exhibit signs of no conforming in track naming.

Torrents are for the most part faster, cause no bandwidth issues for sites and you help back others, perfect system.

This could be improved buy having a site you could browse the mods and tracks and when you ticked one they would be added to the torrent rather then just having the torrent menu to select/deselect.







I in principle don't mind paid mod idea but if you design system yourself you must run it by yourself, like Rieza does, if you do that I got no objections what so ever.

I trying to be diplomatic.

On diplomacy I do think it is any place for anyone at ISI commenting on their opinions on payware either way if they do not support it.
 
DurgeDriven said:
For mine the biggest hassle with those is the last 3 and the different ways track were named and pathed.
Click to expand...
The problem is not those "3" but ISI to begin with. Just fiddle a bit with mas-tool and browse the files ... 1960s F1 cars for example: Most veh-files are messed up with wrong and/or missing data, and tracks are give such unique names like "Full Course". :( There are no standards at all and ISI doesn't seem to care about it.
 
There was a discussion about the ISI track names much earlier on. From memory Tim suggests that ISI isn't that concerned about it because the community will botch it up again anyway like they did with rF1. A few who posted suggested that even though ISI can't control what the community uses for naming mods it would be better for ISI to set the example for others to follow. Unfortunately nothing has change and the community will no doubt follow suit making things just as hard to find if not at all like a good bunch of rF1 stuff that's out there that no one one can find.

DurgeDriven, Is this in response to a post now remove?

good on ya Dragos Haba

-REP for that comment.

lopl
Click to expand...
 
FatCity said:
I just can't help myself when I see these posts.
Why do we need a site to tell us where all the mods are, the ISI forum is doing a great job at just that.
I,m sure there are plenty of modders out there that would like payment for their work, well good on them, let them charge a fee for their work, people will either buy it or they won't same as if you don't want to pay for a mod, then don't. Everyone is happy.

But why do we need to be told that this is the way modding is going to go, just like the Mayans ending the world in 2012.
There are plenty of modders that will still do their work for free or have a donation system, you say it doesnt work, what are you basing this on.
As far as I could read between the lines, people stopped going to RFC because it was taken over/sold to/I don't know what, by a commercial company, who then appearantly to different forum posts, started to use mods or work without acknowledging or rewarding those creators of said work.
When it was created, RFC worked and did for a long time. If the above proposal goes ahead, whats to say that money wont take over from that too.
For all the sugary sweetness that goes with these proposals, they aren't doing it for the good of the community, they are looking for rewards of some form. Otherwise their last proposal wouldnt have called for 50,000 bucks of donations to kick start it.
All the arguments under the sun about paying for RF2 in the 1st place won't cut it as we get from ISI, updates and extra content for the money we have already paid.
I am a nobody, simple as that, all I do is race RF1 in a league and once it is finalised, RF2 in a league.
I don't care if someone puts a price on their work or not. If I am not interested in it I wont look at it either way.
But the thing that really gets me worked up over these " community changing ideas " is that some people that want to tell us how things are going to be by keeping it simple stupid, show their own stupidity by posting things like " hen's " instead of hence, and "roll" instead of role.
Who wants to be shown this way...............
Why can't this forum stick to the improving of the game RF2 instead of becoming a site for all of these "great ideas for the community"
Thats what sites like VirtualR and F1Classic and No Grip are for isn't it, or are they too busy telling about all the new mods and updates coming out.
Click to expand...

I think you completely misunderstood the first post and the concept of the idea. You say these sites are great for finding mods, look at rf1, the ISI forums has had very little mod groups showcasing their mods on it during rf1's lifetime, most were showcased at rFCentral. Virtualr is a great news site but if you want to find an older mod, you have to go through hundreds of pages looking for the article.

The idea was to develop a central site where mod groups could post their mods, acquire support from the community and help the community by having one place for finding mods, instead of having to scour google search for a mod. The idea is about the convenience and did not in any way tell anyone how it should be or what things should be like.

I don't know what made you think that anyone was telling anyone else how things should be. Its just an idea about a central location for finding mods, a hub so to speak. I have friends who like to play many racing games, and I always hear them complain how they can't find this mod or that mod for this game or that game. I figured that having a central location would make it easier to find a good number of mods.

Of course there will still be the issue of mods that are not posted there due to people wanting to have their mods elsewhere, but at least the site could have a majority of mods helping gamers find them easier.

As to why this forum can't stick to improving rF2 and has discussions about improving the community is because the community does need improving and rF2 is not the begin all and end all of this community, it is just another part of it and for rF2 to improve also, this community needs to improve too. If people keep throwing a blind eye to the problems the community is facing as a whole, then how are we to expect things to get better in the future?
 
So I see, what you are proposing is something like this

http://www.simracingbase.com/

As to why this forum can't stick to improving rF2 and has discussions about improving the community is because the community does need improving and rF2 is not the begin all and end all of this community
Click to expand...

I feel sure that ISI would at this point in time on their site think that RF2 was in fact the be all and end all.

And again, what do you base the "community needs to improve too " on.

Why not create what you're talking about and see what happens then.
If people like it or want it, then they will support it.
No need for all the long posts telling us how things will be improved , just do it and lets see.
The guy from simracingbase has done just that.

I havent misunderstood a word you have said, I understand what you are proposing, but no more advertising proposals in posts,
as they said in Field of Dreams, if you build it they will come, but what they forgot to add is , if its worth it they will stay.
 
I'm not sure what you're suggesting or asking either Petros. And when in doubt, just do it. And if you have questions, just ask them, but be precise or you won't get many useful answers, which I think is what happened here.

We have no shortage of good ideas, here or in the world at large. We do have a shortage of people actually doing stuff though.

Perhaps don't go into it with the goal of becoming the central, all-encompassing hub of all activity. That implies you want to supersede and crowd out places users already use and like, and will put you in an antagonistic position to them, which is the last thing you want to do.

I guess I'll just send you a PM in a few minutes to talk a bit moe in detail. For anyone else, if you WANT to help this community just do it. We lack people who do. Do!
 
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