Released McLaren Historical Racecars!

Alex72 said:
So, is it too fast? And is the reason too much grip? I havent had the possibility to test the McLaren's yet OR Sebring OR updated Zand.

Maybe he meant the car was released with some left over DRS in the code? That wasnt impacting anything though i think? And it was fixed, so, not sure if thats what he meant.
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That would have to be Benetton and their traction control left overs :rolleyes:.
 
christos_Swc said:
What do you mean the car had DRS, that wasn't introduced till 2011.
There was this sort of "manual" DRS introduced and later banned but that wasn't on Senna's MP4/8 was it?
I believe hotlapping lap times are unrealistic but still, based on your data,the car does indeed appear to be too fast which is never a good thing for a sim.
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He means that 4 seconds faster 2018 vs 1993 is a small difference, even more when 2018 is using DRS and 1993 dont
 
But we can't really compare times like that. Of course those shadow competition lap times are pretty fast, but people are training/testing hours and hours for one hotlap. Tweaking setups as deep as possible. If we would only have, lets say 5 attempts, then maybe we could compare. And even in that case I don't believe things can be compared in such an easy way.
 
Offcourse there are people that drive and make a setup that is suitable for this one lap competition, I think it's the main purpose of the contest : find not only the faster pilot, but the faster/best in finding the best solution to the problem in a limited timeframe. I think it's a real and concrete job position in modern racing.
"Joe, we have new aero parts to ship for the next race, you have 5 days .. but better if you make it in 3 to develop 2 setups in time for free practice.. and while you are at it, remember the preferences of our lead pilot".
Otherwise the competition would have been of fixed setup, if the purpose was to find just the fastest pilot.
 
LokiD said:
2 words

exploiting setups.


dont pretend you cant do it in rf2.
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Are you referring to the cars being too fast (too much grip), or the times people are getting? MP4/8 default setup with low fuel and soft tyres seems very quick around Copse and other corners, no exploitation required.

Explain yourself.
 
Respectfully....

Not sure though how you can compare sim/game times with real life... theres so many variables that effect the driver that wont effect you sitting in your bedroom .. fear being one of them..!

...and setup changes dont always yield real life results.. dont forget were running sims on limited home pcs. Not everything will be identically physically calculated - Ex: sure the active suspension on the 4/8 hasn't been simulated?!

another word

-compromise-

So what we call hardcore simulators, are in fact dumbed down version of real life!
 
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Had a few laps tonight on all 3 cars. The m23 sounds great, the 8 sounds terrible and just seems to have too much grip, feels like a go kart.
The 13 is stunning, sounds good and drives sweet, my fave car in rf2, would be awesome to have the whole 98 grid!
The one thing I dont get on the official ISI/s397 cars is why when you use the TV cameras do the mirrors not work or the dash? It is the only let down with official content.
 
This experiment look pointless, for starter AI physics and tires are different from player's , and second :which reading would you do to the results ? The only thing we know is that Studio 397 released content officially partnered with the only people on the planet that know those cars. About the performance issue, for me the main disconnection from real times and simulated times are linked to the road surface. There is an enormous gap from Sebring and Silverstone, and I don't think any track before Sebring is detailed enough, even considering that Sebring is an old track with a weathered surface. Track surface impact almost everything, from ride height, suspension stiffness, best lines, grip and so on.
I don't even think that the reasoning that F1 cars are always faster than their older versions is sound. Often F1 rules were implemented specifically to slow down cars and reduce performances.
 
Comante said:
This experiment look pointless, for starter AI physics and tires are different from player's , and second :which reading would you do to the results?The only thing we know is that Studio 397 released content officially partnered with the only people on the planet that know those cars. .
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By this standard, Codemaster F1 must be the best game for f1
If Ai is the problem it could be done online
 
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Louis said:
Anyone tried half grid s397 mclaren, other half Asr mclaren with same setup, ai race?
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I haven't tried AI and performance would depend on the effort put into AI physics, but I tried the ASR Senna car head to head with S397 MP4/8 and the ASR car was around 7 tenths faster. This was just straight out of the box with only fuel equalized for both cars.
 
F1Aussie said:
the 8 sounds terrible and just seems to have too much grip, feels like a go kart.
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Sound is fine to me TBH.
I have not driven a lightweight high mechanical grip formula but it's reasonable to expect it could handle like a kart in high grip conditions, GP3 does the same in slow corners in certain conditions.

Comante said:
This experiment look pointless, for starter AI physics and tires are different from player's , and second :which reading would you do to the results ? The only thing we know is that Studio 397 released content officially partnered with the only people on the planet that know those cars. About the performance issue, for me the main disconnection from real times and simulated times are linked to the road surface. There is an enormous gap from Sebring and Silverstone, and I don't think any track before Sebring is detailed enough, even considering that Sebring is an old track with a weathered surface. Track surface impact almost everything, from ride height, suspension stiffness, best lines, grip and so on.
I don't even think that the reasoning that F1 cars are always faster than their older versions is sound. Often F1 rules were implemented specifically to slow down cars and reduce performances.
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I was thinking track conditions/surface as well, however given that on the same tracks we use the other cars are much closer to real-life times then there's cause for "concern".
If I knew S397 used detailed data provided to the by McLaren I would not look at/care for laptimes and would trust the car in what it does.
What matters to me the most at the end of the day is it is a blast to drive and quite addictive but I know for some that's not enough, perception of realism in what is a high-profile sim is very important.
 
christos_Swc said:
0.7 secs is impressively close.
And still irrelevant of course unless a competent human player puts them through their paces.
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0.7 is considered a lot if we are talking about same vehicle. Diferent mods but the same vehicle.
In a 50 lap race in ideal scenario with gap mantained every single lap, we will end with 35 seconds of gap beteween them. Someone is wrong
 
Louis said:
0.7 is considered a lot if we are talking about same vehicle. Diferent mods but the same vehicle.
In a 50 lap race in ideal scenario with gap mantained every single lap, we will end with 35 seconds of gap beteween them. Someone is wrong
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As I said, I drove one stint with both cars, so from driving variance alone you can factor in at least 0.5 seconds. And that's not even taking into account the default setups. Depending on what the setup defaults are, I'd say another second of variance is at least possible. Just different brake ducts and radiator + engine mixture could gain you a lot of time, so 0.7 is really nothing.

I have driven with mods that are 5 seconds too fast compared to real, which people claim are realistic. When we start talking about 3+ seconds, I can see the argument.
 
@stonec . i dont think i was able to make myself clear.
I was talking about same car (even from different mods), same engine, same setup and same track conditions and same driver.... 0.7 is a lot.
I think people are assuming that mp4/8 from s397 is the standard for comparision to any other mod and like people already said, they are getting very different performance compared how these cars performs in the past with both s397 and asr mod.
Unless i didnt get the jpalesi post and other before (which isnt uncommon)
 
I made a test myself. Almost three years without competitive racing, and only 15 minutes on the Silverstone server with the MP4/8 as a whole experience with the car.

I went to Interlagos with default setup (even full tanks), and on my first lap, I was faster than Senna's laptime. And I missed braking points, ran wide in places, etc. A 3-time world champion with a proper qualify setup, and more talent in a finger than I can hope to have, and I'm faster.

So yes, that car is definitely too fast. I say it's too fast by 8 seconds in Silverstone, probably 6 seconds too fast at Interlagos.
The quality of the releases (including DLC) is lowering each time.
 
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