Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Goanna, May 31, 2020.
Yet that's what happens on this forum, over and over...
In the case of GM, he has some valid points about the structure, that keeps people away from rF2, he is usually using controversial clickbait titles for all stuff, but he is usally also talking way healthier stuff in his videos after it.
Another one I regret watching... just simply one more hollow meaningless video. How the hell it did take him two hours to setup rF2 for that video ???? But GM is GM...
I can answer why to mod rF2 and play rF2 despite AC being "more established" and cheaper.
I have over 2000 hours in AC, I have modded there, I have been pretty active online racer there. I had lots of fun, it is great sim, can't complain about anything. But at about 1500 hours it started to feel like it is time to make a next step. Started to feel like I need to go to higher level software as main one, because more and more thoughts started emerging about certain bits and details of AC being too simple and it brought some kind of monotony and I wasn't fully satisfied anymore.
Meanwhile rF2 was good choice - more advanced and more realistic simulation, modding and online racing is possible with great things told to come, there is a community which is way less spoiled and much more down to earth while at the same time feeling more mature about complex issues and is more likely to find the right way out. It didn't took too much to realize that rF2 has so much more juice and room to get better, but is just underdeveloped and not being developed super fast. There is modding which definitely allows much more to do, but it is more complex and for example blender is not supported, apart from travelers add-on. But I think modding offers more possibilities in here. Online racing can be very very good, but it just doesn't happen as much, also various servers seems to have variable quality. But everything just is there.
I can say that as I hit 1500h in AC it started feeling like it has given the most, as in rF2 I am just almost at 1500h and it just feels fresher and fresher, and most of that was in single player, while in AC it was in online racing racing cars that I really like almost every evening ! I have barely utilized rF2 to its best yet and still feel full enthusiasm.
But perhaps I am not an average simracer, perhaps AC is something that average sirmacer (maybe very fast actually) could play for 10k hours, to me it is sad, not because AC is not good, it is great, but there are certainly higher levels above that, that are being blocked by simracers who are stagnant to evolution. I know a guy who has been racing professionally in the past, he felt like going next level after about 200-300 hours of play. To me rF2 is obvious choice, but he is now in iR, would like trying rF2 too. Why isn't he rushing to rF2 ? First, he has heard about this "difficulty" of setting it up, which by now IMO is getting a bit too stereotypical, the second reason was "why not so many people play it". I think it is so just because it needs more development, and suggestions to ditch it right at the apex of improvements just shows how GM is distanced away from rF2 or just plainly doesn't understand it.
I don't think, it's hollow, to state, that their structure in sales and usability is a bit confusing and off...
Regarding the "GM is GM"...agree, it's the Menu Muscle ...but "rF2 is rF2" is also valid, because it's slooooow to navigate.
That statement is always valid for everything, because life is life
By the way, new UI is slower to navigate - more clicks, tabs, scrolling, spaces.... But I find it more intuitive, and it does more things, and it also is one UI instead UI inside UI. It becomes speed issue when shuffling between content and settings and just doing few laps in each. But not so much time stealing if keeping to similar settings and similar content.
Anyway.. I think that new UI could easily be as fast or faster than new UI, I just don't understand how it isn't perfected already in terms of design. But for everything else it seems like it is better apart few slight other issues like tabing out to desktop doesn't seem to work all the time, and there is some faulty indianapolis package callout when launching the UI which adds bit of waiting.
Yup also wondered how it took GM 2h to install a DLC that takes 5 minutes at best. WTF.
These 2 videos raise some valid criticism, although I do not think rF2 is failing.
It will have failed if some day you wake up and S397 announce they pulled the plug and stop working on rF2, which would be absolutely tragic for simracing.
I think it would be good to have DLC megapacks (tracks+car) for easy starting in a category with the all the best content, at a price lower than individual DLCs. I wouldn't be even against a subscription getting you all paid content for 1 year.
The future for rF2 can only get better with the new UI, competition system and more.
This guy wanted to tell you, that you can gain 5 seconds in time trial on Kyalami in the Sigma by setup and determination in a video, while in reality, he was using a bug in AMS2, when hards were faster than softs. The thing is: He didn't lost any word about using the bug. (And you can't NOT run into it, because the TT started with the slower soft by automatic, you have to actively choose hards, even when you fetch a setup)
Think of that, what you want...
Hi there. I've clarified thoroughly regarding car setups of late - and the bugged hard compounds in AMS 2 in particular. People, like yourself here, seemed to really fixate on that aspect, so recently I showed viewers how to quickly pull 2 and a half extra seconds around Sebring in the new Ferrari to illustrate the validity of delving into setup work.
While I can't help that people will pick and choose what they fixate on in order to project the narrative they want to see onto a situation, I'd hope you would at least try to distinguish when somebody is actively trying to help their community.
You almost helped, a bug in AMS2 not being aknoledged properly, yeah.^^
You can tell pretty easy how to gain 2 seconds in rF2....by an exploit again: Lower tyre pressure to minimum. Done. "That's what not just aliens do, to become faster"
I can see the quality of discourse here is at an all-time high.
Just be open about the reason, why a time gain was occuring, in the first place in the particular video, or content can lose integrity for the future. (And it would be a shame, your production value is pretty good)
Much better roadmap this month.
I'm a bit torn on the new car content. It once again feels rushed, and I don't like the fact the SR3 XX is paid when its predecessor is free. I decided against buying the Ferrari: I want to see how BOP plays out and if the issues introduced for the last big event get actually properly solved. I am however very pleased to see finally the release of Formula E tracks and better support of that esports series.
When you look at areas for development/improvement, and this relates to the GM video, we can see the UI will finally allow for a lot less mucking about with files and settings and you will be closer to 'configure in the UI/jump in and race'. This has to happen for rF2 to make any progress. He's not wrong that people aren't flocking to rF2 despite the increase in good DLC and the good physics, though I'd say, the quality of the DLC is also pretty spotty and hasn't been properly fixed and this is a big black eye on S397. So despite the good reports from the esports series, and the eyes both The Race and the upcoming LeMans 24 Virtual will get, people aren't flooding in (whereas iRacing added 70,000 subscribers to make 170,000 total recently with their high profile esports stuff). I hope to hell there are no issues with that 24hr race with so many big names in it but I'll be honest and say my confidence is not high. There are two reasons: first, there is still no online competition infrastructure after 3 years; second, there have been no improvements to the offline experience either. The UI is necessary but not sufficient as a starter to get to a usable sim; but it still doesn't have the underlying features/functions racers need/want. More content isn't going to help.
Well I chose to have a break away for the last 3 months or so due to frustration of the lack of direction and modding support. I come back and see not much has changed, unless content is your goal. Well lets ruffle some feathers and look at this last few weeks up to the roadmap.
-released some series specific tracks in time for a series for real life drivers
-announced the Virtual Lemans with real life drivers
-released arguably the most anticipated licence in Ferrari.....and launch it with physics that rival the SpaceX launch
-release a new paid car that, aside from a new interior, is virtually the same as an older piece of FREE content.(I guess we should be happy that this was not the postponed car which I still think is the Toyota hypercar)
-the perennial project of Portland may be finished this month
-still waiting on modding tools and information
-still waiting on proper integrated competition system
-still waiting on plenty of fixes
Normally I would be complaining about the modding support or access to dev mode from UI but I would be wasting my time repeating myself.(probably am with the rest as well, but anyway)
In regards to the Ferrari physics issue; this is just another in a long line of quality control issues that are making it through to release. It seems just about every release has something wrong that the community reports almost immediately upon release. Some can't be ignored, like the Ferrari, and is fixed quickly; while others still remain. I believe it was stated on Discord that the Ferrari issue was something that was missed in final pass...my question is how did an aero imbalance of that magnitude make it to final pass in the first place if your testers are doing their job.
From the outside looking in, the last few months have looked like S397 are rushing to keep up with the real life sojourn and its impact on sim-racing. And it is most likely too many mistakes, too late considering real life racing is starting to get back up and running. I really, really hope that they are, have fixed any issues from the last LM24 before putting on this MAJOR event for rF2. Regardless of who is operating the event, publically the buck will stop with S397.
Now onto what is the major issue that is brought up in both videos. I will also point you to this:
Nearly a year ago, before we had any inkling of a Ferrari licence, I foresaw this exact scenario. Right from when the decision to go to paid content I have stated that the packaging system needed to change. And as much as the loyalists may like to argue that it is about the money, it is not. It is about FRAGMENTATION of the playerbase. Take the Virtual Lemans 24Hr. You would require parts of one pack, 1 car from another pack and a single car item along with the track. For the real life drivers; I am sure this is no problem as their teams would have them set up with everything that is needed, along with the necessary support. Other leagues and individuals put up servers of this new content as well, while the free content is left with little to no servers with people. Populated servers are usually the GT3/E content or modded content, same as the advertised races in Discord. So for a new user looking for an online experience they are in a way almost forced into paid content, they either choose to buy in for what is becoming a reasonably substantial upfront outlay or not. Most of the new user that fall into the "or not" category will most likely be done with rF2, at least for now.
Actually no, S397 set themselves a bar with the graphical changes, UI and Competition infrastructure. Graphical changes have largely succeeded but a standard needs to be set and official content ALL needs to be brought up to that level. UI remains to be seen, but seems to be polarising. I have not used for my own reasons. Competition infrastructure success or failure will not be seen until we know how it works, and how accessible it is for the global playerbase. Which leads back to fragmentation.
Lastly - Communication. There needs to be clear communication on the issues in one official repository....this forum. We see more interaction from the devs on RD than we do here. Should we start posting the issues there publically for an answer? As for Discord...its a joke! You get a small gem of information every so often in a massive pile of garbage, and if you are not there to see it straight away its gone.
It would be nice to hear some official feedback, but I expect that I will be blasted by some of the blind loyalists. Oh well....
A pretty nice roadmap, the demand for multiplayer games is understood.
and although I understand the point of many users in this post I will only say one thing ...
If there is no paid content there is no money for the study.
If there is no money for the study there is no development and the game dies.
If the game dies all those who complain but still half use the simulator will be left with an incomplete simulator.
my philosophy is, as long as they develop something welcome be...
I am not a fan of the line in this simulator, for me this simulator is where I can use little known content and completely to my personal taste, I would love a more updated AI, and although the AI is one of the best so far, the The years begin to show in it.
I could go on with a long list of things I want, and I know we all have a long list of things that can be improved, but I insist ...
I prefer that RF2 follow a slow but long and prosperous path, something like what Iracing did (although the focus of that game is different, is maintained with continuous development) than doing what assetto corsa did (the end development, and launch another game).
I want an RF2 with continuous development ... no!, that the game dies and an RF3 comes out that will take about 10 years of development again...
It is just an opinion I hope it is not misinterpreted, I love this game, it is the only one where I can really feel in a race car. (based on my experiences obviously someone else can think completely different).
Firstly I agree on the RD bit, more Dev interaction on the Official Forum would be much better. I'm not saying they should stop posting at RD altogether, after all that site gets a lot more traffic than this one but this place should be more central with Devs.
As for Discord, I've seen a similar rant from others, I just don't think you fully understand what a "Chat" program is. IRC (Internet Relay Chat) was immensely popular in the 1990s/early 00s, with Discord it's seen a great resurgence with tons of extra features (very good Voice Chat for one).
It's designed to be a place to Chat, think of it as though it were a Pub; The Landlord (Developer) invites you in, you stay and chat with other Punters (Sim Fans) and occasionally the Landlord (Developer) has a chat at the Bar with you - that's what Discord is, a place to Chat. Sure some good conversations open up and some decent information may get lost, but that's just todays way of interacting with people, many games (including Sims) have Official Channels, so it must be doing something right.
I'll keep this to a couple of factual points, not worth discussing much else:
It was introduced at the final pass, hence no one caught it. Finger trouble, file mixup, don't know. But that's why it wasn't caught before release - it only existed on release. (it's also not an aero imbalance - there's a specific parameter that nearly any modder will recognise as a very likely culprit for that sort of behaviour, and it won't affect any normal driving)
It won't be polarising for much longer, because we'll have a release candidate and then with a final release it'll be what everyone uses. There are some issues with it still, but it's meant to be functionally equivalent to the old one and then we switch - leaving room for improvements on the other side. There are already improvements in it, mind you.
This is a bit like "Bet you won't print this!" in letters to the editor (newspaper, magazines). Preemptive belittling of anyone disagreeing as 'blind loyalists'. As for feedback, a lot of what you're talking about (like packaging) has been discussed already, often for years, so I'm not sure why you think you'll get a personalised response to it. We all know the issues, I'm sure they know the issues, they're doing what they choose to do and it's up to us to play or not.
I understand what a chat program is, I'm just not sure that the devs know fully. How often is it that someone has to reply to a question on the forum, saying that "Oh that was answered on Discord". The Ferrari issue was answered on the forum via someone posting a screenshot of Discord.
This was not directed at anyone in particular, and especially not yourself Lazza. You are one of the most helpful people here on the forum. Moreso at the fact that earlier in this post a video with valid opinions was shown, yet the creator was attacked for a totally different thing. I expected nothing less for my opinion. I know the package system has been discussed for years. Right from the original Q&A where paid content was discussed as being the way forward I have stated the same thing. Without an iRacing style system of single car, single track entry to MP servers you will not keep numbers. The Competition System will only show the issue up worse. And whether it is myself bring it up, or others bringing it up on social media(Discord, Youtube, Steam discussion, wherever) Ican't see it being an issue that will go away as more content gets released.
And to muddy the waters with more quotes from Discord only 2 days ago from Dom
"we defintely looked at this, it was an ambition, but its quite complicated within our infrastructure to do currently - that doesnt mean we dont do it at some point" ?????
Lastly, as someone perpetually trying to learn this modding caper(spending the last 3 years understanding the tyres), I would be interested to know the parameter that was changed; you know for testing purposes
hmm not sure I know what you mean by that, the Devs are on there chatting...in the Chat rooms... It's no different from Sector3 either, their forums often have quotes from Users relaying Discord chats. It's obviously not your cup of tea!
I think you'd be better off doing the tyres last; that's my theory, anyway (the rest is certainly easier to understand!)
The most likely candidate for the front taking off is FWLiftHeightPlus, combined with FWMaxHeight. The first allows shaping of downforce at very low front wing heights, as wings gain extra downforce with less air underneath them. That also means they lose downforce (gain lift) at higher ride heights, which you'd generally keep negative-to-zero so that your overall FWLiftParams define the base downforce. But you need FWMaxHeight set correctly to 'stop' the curve - otherwise when you lift the wing higher, you keep getting more and more lift...
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