Marussia MR01 GP Car v1.0 Released

[tjc]

I honestly have no clue what the numbers in rF2 mean either, i've just left them at default for now, i haven't actually had the time to drive this very much. I decided to take the rest of today off to test this car and i'm still experimenting. I think the higher the number the higher the braking, but this could be wrong. I remember adjusting the brake map for the FISI, but can't remember which way was which since it was a few months ago since i last really played around with the game. I'll post which way is which after testing if no one else does.

That`d be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Miro]

Engine braking and bouncing off the limiter are not the same thing. When drivers in F1 say they have to use a lot of engine braking, they don't mean to shift down earlier than normal, it simply means they've turned up the engine brake map so that the rake from the engine slows the car down and helps with braking. This seems to be very misunderstood thing around here, i remember a previous thread about this where people were arguing that engine braking doesn't do anything and doesn't help with slowing the car down and isn't even used in racing. Engine braking happens because the parts inside the engine aren't able to turn freely on their own due to a vacuum effect of the closed throttle and since the engine is connected directly to the drive train this also slows the connected wheels down, thus slowing the car down without using the wheel brakes, this in no way damages the engine or drive train other than through normal wear.

The reason why the Marussia needs to use engine braking more than average is because the brakes simply aren't able to cope with being used fully during a full length race, they'd wear out and eventually fail if they didn't use engine braking to help in the braking zones, the brakes have to do quite a lot to stop a car from those speeds so in this case engine braking is a necessity in reality, not an option.

I should also mention that a modern F1 wheel rim is only 13 inches, which is smaller than most modern road cars. So they actually have very small brakes considering what they have to do.

Interesting, so you say it doesn't slow the car down any more when I shift down earlier, I could also stay in 7th gear till I have to accelerate again? Sounds strange to me.
Did I understand that correctly?

 

[Takumi]

I think it is that way unless you hit limiter under downshifting--> rear will lockup. But if you stay at high gear in the corner, you cant balance your car with gas and car is kind of "dead".

 

[Miro]

Ah ok, then all is good, thank you for explaining.

That's exactly what I am trying to do.

BTW nice watch! I would loose my mind with that tiny stuff lol.

 

[KeiKei]

Thanks for the confirmation. Were you lapping late into a wet session?

No, I went straight driving in first practice session without delay. However I believe it shouldn't matter because it seems track gets full wetness before end of first lap. Made another test today and tried to drive even more accurately. Yes I felt there was more grip at the very beginning of session but took the first lap relatively easy and tire wear indicator showed full green bars for each tire at the beginning of first timed lap. Think I was constantly very near the limit but still not overdoing it as I was monitoring tire temps very closely. For sure there were some hairy moments before tires gave out but believe didn't cause too much excessive wear. I was able to make them last 4-5 laps but after that they were giving out very fast (as you can see from attached lap times). Made also a video of the session because couldn't attach replay to this post (maybe about 4 megs is too big?):

http://youtu.be/ufGbYk5fOaY?hd=1

Here's my setup and track rubber files which I used at the test session:

\rFactor2\UserData\player\Settings\Malaysian_Gp\View attachment 6878

Just want to add this Marussia is the best vehicle I've ever driven on any sim! Amazing vehicle once you get hang of it and find suitable setup.

Attachments:

View attachment 6881View attachment 6880View attachment 6879

 

[tjc]

The lower the number, the more the engine braking. You don't want it too low though because the rear wheels will slow down too quickly and you'll spin easily, similar to old sports cars. I think around 11-13 might be good, but it's really up to you. It changes the way the car enters a corner quite a bit. You can experiment by putting it on 0, do a few laps, and then set it to 20 without changing anything else and do some more laps, you'll understeer through a corner more with a higher number and oversteer more with a lower number.

Something to ponder about this, everyone who knows anything about Senna, knows he used a technique called "stabbing the throttle", he may have done this because he set the engine braking high and would let the car oversteer when he wanted it to, and open the throttle to keep it from spinning.

Excellent. I`ll do some experimenting with it and see how things go.

I appreciate the info and you checking it out.

 

[kaptainkremmen]

Engine braking happens because the parts inside the engine aren't able to turn freely on their own due to a vacuum effect of the closed throttle .

With 'drive by wire' wouldn't it be more efficient to leave the Throttle 'Flap' open and cut the fuel ? or the ignition if you want big bangs


or how about using solenoid operated valves and passing the exhaust stroke from one cylinder into the induction stroke of another via the inlet manifold.

 

[tjc]

No, I went straight driving in first practice session without delay. However I believe it shouldn't matter because it seems track gets full wetness before end of first lap. Made another test today and tried to drive even more accurately. Yes I felt there was more grip at the very beginning of session but took the first lap relatively easy and tire wear indicator showed full green bars for each tire at the beginning of first timed lap. Think I was constantly very near the limit but still not overdoing it as I was monitoring tire temps very closely. For sure there were some hairy moments before tires gave out but believe didn't cause too much excessive wear. I was able to make them last 4-5 laps but after that they were giving out very fast (as you can see from attached lap times). Made also a video of the session because couldn't attach replay to this post (maybe about 4 megs is too big?):

http://youtu.be/ufGbYk5fOaY?hd=1

Here's my setup and track rubber files which I used at the test session:

\rFactor2\UserData\player\Settings\Malaysian_Gp\View attachment 6878

Just want to add this Marussia is the best vehicle I've ever driven on any sim! Amazing vehicle once you get hang of it and find suitable setup.

Attachments:

View attachment 6881View attachment 6880View attachment 6879

Good testing and video KeiKei...

I really like that camera angle you used in the video too.

I`ve not done any wet driving with the MR01 yet... I must give it a go, I`ve grabbed that setup and rubber too.

 

[kaptainkremmen]

Well if you left the throttle open, there would be no vacuum for the engine braking to occur. Some of the engine braking is obviously from the momentum of the moving parts in the engine and drive train, but most of it is actually from the vacuum created within the engine when you close the throttle suddenly. I have no idea how it works exactly in an F1 car, especially since it's fully adjustable by the driver while driving, so it's probably more complicated than the throttle simply closing in an F1 car, but that is basically what causes the engine braking as far as i understand. Any system that adjusts the throttle position without the driver's input would be considered traction control, so it can't be too complicated.

The vacuum is just a by-product of shutting the throttle. Engine braking is caused or achieved by compression of the inlet gasses. Shutting the throttle stops the fuel going in so there's no 'bang'.

 

[TIG_green]

I'll give it a go.

First of all you need to use the hole track. Second, you need to use engine braking more.
Watch my turn one, I barely brake there with my brakes, only engine braking. And watch the entry of the corners, I try to use the hole track. Turn two also, hard on the brakes and use engine braking also and slowly apply less and less brake pressure. Turn three is also only engine braking or just a small tap on the brakes.
Turn four, the right hander, I belive I shift down as soon as I start to brake (again engine braking also). The goal is to be just on the limit so that the tires don't lock up, as soon as they lock up you have to apply less brake pressure.

If you get those right for the start I think you'll get the rest of the track yourself mate.

My lap is also not perfect but good enough for recording .

I felt that my car is understeering a lot. Also, you seem to have way more grip than I.

My setup: View attachment 6892

But thanks for giving some advice

 

[tjc]

No problem, man. Just be sure to adjust your brake bias accordingly. The more engine braking, the more forward you want to put your brake bias to compensate. This is where you see the benefit of engine braking, it slows the rear tires while the wheel brakes slow the front tires, you end up with good braking performance without wearing out the actual brakes.

I`ll certainly keep all of this in mind... I`m really enjoying experimenting with the MR01, much more than I`ve enjoyed experimenting with these things before on a sim F1 car. It`s just such a good car to drive and experiment on imo.

Best sim F1 car I`ve ever driven...

Thanks again.

 

[whiplash]

Best sim F1 car I`ve ever driven...

Thanks again.

not much more to say really!

 

[costamesa]

Looking at the onboard footages of f1 drivers, most of simracers here and other games use downshifting way too much aggresively. CM implemented a new approach in their game this year: Downshifting too early was destroying your engine in just a few laps but they had to throw it away with the patches as community argued though the idea was good, implementation was not working good enough.

Also Ferrari Virtual Academy has a different way for downshifting that prevents players downshift too early. if my memory serves me well they say it is the way a modern f1 car operates..

 

[Takumi]

Looking at the onboard footages of f1 drivers, most of simracers here and other games use downshifting way too much aggresively. CM implemented a new approach in their game this year: Downshifting too early was destroying your engine in just a few laps but they had to throw it away with the patches as community argued though the idea was good, implementation was not working good enough.

Also Ferrari Virtual Academy has a different way for downshifting that prevents players downshift too early. if my memory serves me well they say it is the way a modern f1 car operates..

I was talking about same thing earlier. Not really sure if that aggressive downshifting is realistic but it seems to work for some drivers in RF2. But as my onboard lap few post earlier shows, it is not only way to do it. Here is another example of lazy downshigting. All drivers in F1 seems to do it more or less this way :

 

[costamesa]

Not really sure if that aggressive downshifting is realistic but it seems to work for some drivers in RF2.

No, it is not.

 

[Miro]

Yup, I think i depends on the situation. Either it's a Q lap or in race or they are driving agressive or saving fuel, they do it different.

Look here you can see Vettel is also matching the revs on the right side. That's a Q lap. I think it's style and situation dependent.

 

[Takumi]

Yup, I think i depends on the situation. Either it's a Q lap or in race or they are driving agressive or saving fuel, they do it different.

Look here you can see Vettel is also matching the revs on the right side. That's a Q lap. I think it's style and situation dependent.

You are right there. But you can still see that downshifting happens mostly between 15k-12k revs. Far from max 18k rpm.

 

[costamesa]

Yup, I think i depends on the situation. Either it's a Q lap or in race or they are driving agressive or saving fuel, they do it different.

Look here you can see Vettel is also matching the revs on the right side. That's a Q lap. I think it's style and situation dependent.

iam at work= web filters= cant really watch the videos

 

[tjc]

You are right there. But you can still see that downshifting happens mostly between 15k-12k revs. Far from max 18k rpm.

I agree...

The above video of Kimi a few posts up is a good example of "proper" downshifting imo.

I accept that downshifting may be different for qually laps/race laps/practice laps but this "screaming" engine sound when downshifting in sims is unrealistic imo. I`ve heard it done in various sims/games by loads of sim drivers and it may yield a quick time but it`s not "sim" to me as they don`t scream the engine like that whilst downshifting in reality...

Not like it`s done in sim world anyway.

 

[Thomas]

u all are right. But tbh, im downshifting very very fast. I do it because its a lot faster than lazy downshifting, for me. When i try the lazy downshift, i have to break way earlier and the car looses stability under breaking. So, a lot of tenth to loose there. Some other guy said it before. The Ferrari Virtual Academy was just great to drive. At this time, i thought: this is the way a formula one car could really feel in reality. Same here with Marussia, except for the downshifting. In FVA it was not able to downshift that fast. If you tried to shift at higher revs the gearbox just wouldnt do the shift. And yes, in those days, the nkPro devs said that is the way a modern f1 car operates. So, why does the Marussia allow that fast downshift if it is not even possible in a real f1 car???