Manual clutch functionality

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FuzzyFassbender, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. FuzzyFassbender

    FuzzyFassbender Registered

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    With all of the changes being made/planned by Studio397, how come manual clutch functionality doesn't seem to be a priority.

    There has got to be a lot of long-time rF2 racers here (I've owned rF2 for 2-3 years) that must have seen this topic beaten to death in the past but I'm a little dumb-founded on why rF2 at this point in time is still behind the competition. In addition, rF2 seems to be the sim of choice for the more hard-core racing leagues. Clutch use seems like a given for a racing sim.
    It's hard to stand up to the rF2 criticisms on the various forums, and I've tried to do so many times, when something so basic as manual clutch functionality is incomplete. Of my main sims, AMS, R3E, and AC do a pretty good job at simulating clutch functionality - Project CARS 2 and rF2 do not (they are similar). Will the sim of all sims eventually get a working clutch?

    Note, I'm an rF2 fanman. I would just like to see some pot holes filled in.
     
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  2. lbird

    lbird Registered

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    That is definitely a hot topic, especially considering all the high quality historic content that starts to surface now (historic formula 1 etc.). I was always wondering why nobody from Studio397 ever mentioned it. Anybody remembering rf1 with grinding tranny mod and HistorX? That is (except for the graphics, realroad etc.) the gold standard of simracing for me....
    This topic belongs high on the todo list imho.
     
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  3. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Not been here long,what’s wrong with rf2s clutch model,im Showing ignorance as I only drive cars that have paddle shifters in sim
     
  4. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Thank you for this reasonable and important information :D
     
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  5. lbird

    lbird Registered

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    To put it a little more politely: If you use paddle shifters on cars, then you don't really need a clutch simulation (because these cars autoclutch). But a lot of people are using separate shifters (e.g. TRS8) and a clutch pedal where it is appropriate. And there is not much of a manual clutch simulation present at the moment, for example you can shift without the clutch and you are not causing gearbox damage, no missed gears simulated etc.
     
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  6. TheLichten

    TheLichten Registered

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    Well, yes gearbox damage is not implemented and an Clutch Wear value exists (but is unimplemented, like other things).
    But missed gears are simulated:
    Code:
    BaulkTorque=320                // Maximum torque transferred through gears while engaging them
    
    This is the amount to which a gearbox will sync when not correctly rev matching.
    The issue is that with most mods this value is way to high, so you can pull off what you said, upshifts without clutch.
    (Even though this can very easily upset the car and through you of the curcuit)

    The only mods that I know of (there are properbly more) are the Mark Corp Group C cars (with either the Paddles Full Manual or H-Shifter Full Manual) or the Ferrari 312 (with the hardcore upgrade)
     
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  7. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    this is the one main reason I've never bothered with a clutch pedal - its doesnt really work in many sims realistically.
     
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  8. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    I don’t know if my post came off wrong,but I was just asking what things are wrong with the model,I wasn’t trying to say nothing is wrong with it.

    Anyway back to the topic,so in some cars you can shift with out the clutch or even a blip on the throttle,never noticed because on the cars I’ve drove that don’t have auto clutch,I just use my clutch and shift with the paddle,never tried to shift those cars without pressing the clutch.
    This is a bit disappointing to hear,that’s one thing I liked about iracings older cars,blip out of sync and the gear wouldn’t go in,up or down,and you’d lock the rears on down shifts
     
  9. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Not that I need to give it,you all know I’m ignorant to most things lol
     
  10. lbird

    lbird Registered

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    No, not at all. I was more referring to Aris first (and very short) answer.... :)
     
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  11. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    to be, or trying to be amongst the top of certain genre (of anything), you really shouldn't lack in something others in the top dont. it's as simple as that.

    being behind the competition is one thing, but on top of that, the fact that a 12 years(!) old sim with community made plugin gives more authentic shifting experience is really pathetic. yes, i could have used a nicer term than pathetic but it would have been sugarcoating the matter.
    having the head hidden in sand on this matter just wont cut it anymore. say whatever you want, make whatever excuse you like, but it's just denying the facts.

    NOT putting in a temporary solution like plugin (as AMS did initially) because it's not "in our standards" or what ever excuse i've heard in the past, have made the whole game drop below current day user standards.

    and im not just talking about people flat shifting upwards, or shifting downwards before it's physically possible to engage the gear(s).
    shifting in any situation feels numb and artificial.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  12. FuzzyFassbender

    FuzzyFassbender Registered

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    But that's the thing, clutch functionality is simulated in 3 of the top 5 "current" racing games/sims - AMS, AC, and R3E. There's nothing like racing an old historic with manual clutch and h-shifter - paddle shifting is just above an automatic o_O

    As an addition to this topic...
    Unless rF2 doesn't mind being on the same level as Project CARS 2 (had to say it, PC2 gets under the skin of many ;)). clutch functionality should be a priority in my mind. Yes, this isn't the only thing that separates the competitors but a fairly large one related to the core driving experience.
    I put rF2 at the top of the heap of the "sim" type racing games but it's hard to argue with some that point to this core functionality. A couple of weeks ago some friends stopped over for the Sunday football game. One in particular was a life-long car/racing nut and was excited to try my rig (he's never raced virtually). Of course I fired up rF2 first as I wanted to give him the best experience of driving/racing virtually - it wasn't long before he realized he couldn't miss a shift (up or down). My previous description of rF2 as the best game at representing IRL racing experience (within reason) didn't sound so good :(.

    Again, I just don't know why technically this hasn't been addressed prior after all these years. No, I'm not going to stop racing rF2 but clutch functionality would round out the "simulated" features nicely.
     
  13. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

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    I've avoided using clutch in sims (and in real life) for years after having sciatic nerve problems, which started because of driving a manual car to work everyday in traffic. Since I only race in H pattern cars every once in a while, I decided last week to finally order a shifter (which will be arriving Dec 5th) because I wanted to have that awesome feeling once again of driving a manual car.
    Now I'm learning than it 2017 most sims don't simulate clutch properly!!! I wouldn't have expected that since I see in all of them that autoclutch on/off option.
    I will still use it and for sure enjoy it, but it's disappointing to find out it's not being simulated properly, especially in rF2.
     
  14. FuzzyFassbender

    FuzzyFassbender Registered

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    Yeah, the last manual transmission for me was back in early 2000's with a BMW 325is and a 1995 Corvette - everything since has been an automatic. I got tired of driving in heavy traffic with a manual. At least the automatic transmissions in some of the newer performance cars shift very well - I couldn't match the sequential shifting speed of my BMW 135i with a manual. With that said, virtually I much prefer to simulate the driving of legendary race cars with a h-shifter - much more of a challenge!
    Thrustmaster TX w/T3PA Pro pedals and TH8A shifter
     
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  15. lbird

    lbird Registered

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    Especially if you are used to drive vintage cars with manual shifters in real life (i do collect them) the lack of a proper clutch simulation is a glaring omission from my point of view. There is no point in heel and toe, throttle blipping etc. when there is absolutely no consequence compared to just raking through the gears without taking care of the clutch at all. Kills the immersion quite a bit, even if almost everything else physics wise is top notch in RF2......
     
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  16. demerzel

    demerzel Registered

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    Easy. Stupid shit like proper clutch which actually wanted buy the community won't bring attention to the game which in turn won't bring new players which means less overpriced DLC buying power.

    However. A gimmick like this: https://www.studio-397.com/2017/12/support-for-windows-mixed-reality-headsets/ means attention and media appearances and hopefully more new players which means more money.
     
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  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    You lose all credibility if you talk of rF2 being a moneygrab.
     
  18. demerzel

    demerzel Registered

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    k
     
  19. Seven Smiles

    Seven Smiles Registered

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    I haven't thought too deeply about the technical issues but it seems to me this would be better handled by a plugin developed by the community. It's not in the core of the game - there are so many more important things Studio-397 should be working on and which only they can work on - and I suspect that implementing something that works and feels right across a variety of cars may swallow a lot of time and effort. I tried the Grinding Tranny mod back in the day but as I recall I was more impressed at the idea than how it worked in practice. More recently, my brief experience of the clutch/gearchange in AC just leaves me momentarily mystified when I find myself in neutral with no obvious cause.

    I haven't thought what addition to the API would be required (I don't know what's there already) but I don't think it would be difficult for S397 to provide - maybe a little more information for the plugin, a way for the plugin to bypass rF2s own gear selection code, and then some way of simulating the effect which could be as simple as controlling which gear (or neutral) is selected, specifying which sound file should be used and reporting Clutch Wear (and maybe "percentage of thrust transmitted" to simulate slipping the clutch?) to rF2. The plugin can be in charge of mechanical failure - if it decides the clutch has gone then it selects neutral, it could do the same for any gear it decides is broken (or the whole box).
     
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  20. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    It is many years ago when Howston G4/G6 was released with non working clutch and no realistic drivetrain.
    "There's one issue related to the clutch, it will slip when up-shifting results in improper mismatch of revs, this will be in-place until the new drive-line model comes online (no ETA on this)."
    While I have been waiting Howston`s to get updated/fixed pCars,Pcars 2, AMS has been released and iRacing has also been updated to DX11. o_O
    No drivetrain no clutch is no simulator so simple is that;)

     

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