Make the McLaren Senna (not GTR = road hypercar)

D

DrivingFast

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From what I understand the Senna GTR is derived from a road car (Senna) but is not a real road car.

A bit like a FXX evo for example.

I wish, if it is possible, that S397 makes the road version (McLaren Senna).

Since this is another license, I do not think it will happen, but I wish.

Marcel did not rule out the possibility of making a road car, stating that the priority of S397 are the race car.

To be honest, I still hope that happens.
 
Road car Senna would be dope, but consider this: the Senna GTR will probably be one of the first new LeMans hypercar class participant. That is cool!

If that turns out to be true (it's just me guessing from the language used by S397 when talking about this car) we will be getting a chance to drive a future top class LeMans racer way in advance :cool:
 
slatanek said:
Road car Senna would be dope
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I do not think that's the best idea, but I think at least 1 reference road car (or more) is needed in rF2.

Just think that we must please everyone !

It could be a Senna, a 812 superfast, a F40, a McLaren F1, a Pagani Zonda etc ........
 
From what I seen in videos road legal Senna is really awesome edgy beast. But it is not a racing car... For racign they throws fun out of the cars, and inserts laptimes...

I am almost certain that there will never be a car that is not underpowered for its massive downforce and super grippy tires from S397, because they aim for modern high profile racing cars, and they are mostly like that. At least they feels so in simulations, does not accept edgyness. Even Formula E, which in my observation is a bit more edgy racing car, still feels too good.

Forget road cars, forget classics. Forget Hshifters, manual clutches... even though we in simulations could enjoy racing anything anywhere, but obviously it pays off the most to imitate what is happening out there in real life at the present time, even though in my opinion it is not the best what has been happening with motorracing through its history, but that is just my opinion.

There might be an exception like it was with classic mclarens pack, but to me all those three also feels slightly overplanted.

Not sayign that all that stuff is not awesome, but I'd say it is not 100% awesome.
 
mantasisg said:
From what I seen in videos road legal Senna is really awesome edgy beast. But it is not a racing car... For racign they throws fun out of the cars, and inserts laptimes...

I am almost certain that there will never be a car that is not underpowered for its massive downforce and super grippy tires from S397, because they aim for modern high profile racing cars, and they are mostly like that. At least they feels so in simulations, does not accept edgyness. Even Formula E, which in my observation is a bit more edgy racing car, still feels too good.

Forget road cars, forget classics. Forget Hshifters, manual clutches... even though we in simulations could enjoy racing anything anywhere, but obviously it pays off the most to imitate what is happening out there in real life at the present time, even though in my opinion it is not the best what has been happening with motorracing through its history, but that is just my opinion.

There might be an exception like it was with classic mclarens pack, but to me all those three also feels slightly overplanted.

Not sayign that all that stuff is not awesome, but I'd say it is not 100% awesome.
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This is what people race. Look at AC, it's got all the cars and then some and still everybody's racing the gt3's. So no point in releasing cars no one's gonna drive.
On the point of cars in rf2 being too planted - are you coming from iRacing or something? Thing is in real life race cars are generally very planted, that's the whole point of a racecar. I suggest stop driving on soft slicks with downforce all the way up
 
slatanek said:
This is what people race. Look at AC, it's got all the cars and then some and still everybody's racing the gt3's. So no point in releasing cars no one's gonna drive.
On the point of cars in rf2 being too planted - are you coming from iRacing or something? Thing is in real life race cars are generally very planted, that's the whole point of a racecar. I suggest stop driving on soft slicks with downforce all the way up
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I drive systematically (offline) with hard tires, 100% braking pressure, never any help, and often aerodynamics at least.

To return to the subject, only 1 reference road car would suit me on rF2.

I watched, the differences between a Senna and a Senna GTR are quite important.
 
slatanek said:
This is what people race. Look at AC, it's got all the cars and then some and still everybody's racing the gt3's. So no point in releasing cars no one's gonna drive.
On the point of cars in rf2 being too planted - are you coming from iRacing or something? Thing is in real life race cars are generally very planted, that's the whole point of a racecar. I suggest stop driving on soft slicks with downforce all the way up
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That is what people mostly race, but not all. Different cars also has fair amount of fans, even though some may have harder time to succeed at gathering up full servers. Thats undeniable. But it is definitely not absolute like you have short sightedly stated. At some point different kinds of vehicle, more variety, will be way to win more people to come to use this software.

I am not arguing that these cars are very planted IRL, I very much agree, but my idea is that they are less planted. Perhaps it is hard to understand that a guy things that something what is a lot, should be less, and it would still be a lot... I come from AC, ACC and mainly observing real life, because IMO you should be aiming to simulate real life, not the other simulator, right ? Trying to get technical, I would describe rF2 cars being too planted as tolerating slip ratio too well, and load sensitivity is not as biting as in AC/ACC. And what I perceive from real life seems more similar in ACC to me. Grip varies in more dynamic fashion, and those cars has rather narrow optimum performance window which you should be able to drive in. It is all very technical, and actually difficult to talk in such generalized fashion. So I am not surprised that initially such talk seems nonsense for people who has not even a slight observation on these things.

By the way, my point is that there hardly was any car that super obviously should handle very edgy from S397,and there probably is not going to be. In such way they produce cars that has the most appeal, undeniably and sadly. Also in such way we have a top realistic simulation filled with cars that are as arcadish IRL as possible :D so you have perfectly legit simulation, that is arcadish as possible while keeping the integrity of a genre :D Of course it is mega difficult still to reach top pace and consistency, but my main point is some of the basics of car performance at the limit. You can see from the videos road going Senna is scary and twitchy at the limit, GTR is not going to be so.
 
I get your point about having a road car being a good thing, I agree, it would be cool.

I disagree the cars being too planted in rf2. If you push them they gonna snap. That's how modern race cars on modern slicks work - they've got plenty of grip, but the falloff is quite sudden too, so if you push enough they get loose, especially on a track like Sebring.
 
mantasisg said:
That is what people mostly race, but not all. Different cars also has fair amount of fans, even though some may have harder time to succeed at gathering up full servers. Thats undeniable. But it is definitely not absolute like you have short sightedly stated. At some point different kinds of vehicle, more variety, will be way to win more people to come to use this software.

I am not arguing that these cars are very planted IRL, I very much agree, but my idea is that they are less planted. Perhaps it is hard to understand that a guy things that something what is a lot, should be less, and it would still be a lot... I come from AC, ACC and mainly observing real life, because IMO you should be aiming to simulate real life, not the other simulator, right ? Trying to get technical, I would describe rF2 cars being too planted as tolerating slip ratio too well, and load sensitivity is not as biting as in AC/ACC. And what I perceive from real life seems more similar in ACC to me. Grip varies in more dynamic fashion, and those cars has rather narrow optimum performance window which you should be able to drive in. It is all very technical, and actually difficult to talk in such generalized fashion. So I am not surprised that initially such talk seems nonsense for people who has not even a slight observation on these things.

By the way, my point is that there hardly was any car that super obviously should handle very edgy from S397,and there probably is not going to be. In such way they produce cars that has the most appeal, undeniably and sadly. Also in such way we have a top realistic simulation filled with cars that are as arcadish IRL as possible :D so you have perfectly legit simulation, that is arcadish as possible while keeping the integrity of a genre :D Of course it is mega difficult still to reach top pace and consistency, but my main point is some of the basics of car performance at the limit. You can see from the videos road going Senna is scary and twitchy at the limit, GTR is not going to be so.
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AC is a waste of time at this point - their race cars are as arcedey as they get not to mention the tyre model seems simplistic and the FFB is based on rubber bands being pulled instead of a steering rack, so let's forget about AC as a serious sim. ACC is way better but note that it uses the Blancpain Pirelli tyre which would be more like a hard compound from what I gather. When I tried out the 911 GT3 R in both ACC and RF2 they seem very close physics and tyre behaviour wise. So I don't know where the notion of RF2 cars being arcadey comes from. GT3 cars are generally easy to drive, these are gentleman racer cars so don't expect them to be edgy (you can make them loose with setup though). Plus I find the default setups in RF2 to be quite drivable out of the box vs the setups in ACC which require work one way or another - the loose setup is waaaay to edgy, the safe setup is bland.

Also note that driving a car in real life is not difficult per se, so the notion of difficult = realistic is a wrong one.

In general I would say RF2 and ACC are the closest to real life in terms of tyre behaviour/physics. AMS would be a close second. AC? No. It's better than PC2 but not by a huge margin.
 
One more thing on ACC. As of version 1.0.6 the tyres behaviour on curbs is broken, hence the cars seem way more snappy than they actually should. This is something Kunos is working on and it should be fixed in version 1.0.7
 
I agree with your message mostly. I just don't think that AC is that much worse, but it is for sure worse and FFB is for sure feeling like you have described. And I also do think that rF2 and ACC cars driving does feel similar. And that is also a good thing, if sims will get more realistic they eventually will get more similar handling/physics/ffb.

I do think AC despite shortcoming is still awesome, and it obviously shares similar/same philospphy with ACC, no wonder why. And I am with that philosophy. I certainly don't call rF2 simulation arcadish, but the aspect the way tires looses traction does seem pointing more to arcadish direction. You might be actually right about Blancpain tires being a bit more rational, I have not thought about that. Soft tire here is certainly a BS and it shouldn't exist, drives arcadish and wears stupidly fast, that tire makes no sense, and you could be right about it being at fault here. But I perceive these principles on other types of tires, and other cars too so IMO it is physics philosophy behind all that.

In ACC I make setups even edgier lol

Gentlemens cars ? More like children pedaling cars.

Afaik the 5point tire is already available as test version, it should fix kerbs spinning issue, but I think the general handling should remain similar.
 
When I talk about AC I mean their race cars - they feel like RC cars to me. The road cars in AC are actually fun to drive in and feel kind of like I would expect them to (except the FFB that is).

Yeah, I've read the dev blog on ACC tyre and it's good to hear they recognize the issue and have it basically worked out at this point. It's a real shame that the online is not what it supposed to be - I imagined something in the vain of iRacing and it turned out to be a copy of PC2 online system, which means that everybody will drive in open servers with no rating crashing in the first corner. It's a real bummer cause ACC is so focused having only one car class that it could be something really special online.
 
I've said it before and had many people agreeing.
If anyone produces an rF2 version similar to rF1's superb Historic GT & Touring Cars mod from the HistorX team, it would be one of the best things that could happen to rF2 even if it is paid content.
In my 12 years of sim racing the best racing, fun times and memories have been online with a bunch of silly old buggers sliding around in cars as old or older than us.
Yes of coarse some people will always want the latest and (as the saying goes) greatest computer controlled human assisted virtual vehicle to race around in and they have every right to expect and enjoy modern cars with all the tech bells and whistles in a sim that is constantly evolving.

Just don't forget that "old" doesn't mean "abandoned".

One of the most popular racing series we have in Oz is the Touring Car Masters
It's like the restomod of racing.
Old cars with young running gear. You could say it's lamb dressed as mutton. ;)
 
ADSTA said:
I've said it before and had many people agreeing.
If anyone produces an rF2 version similar to rF1's superb Historic GT & Touring Cars mod from the HistorX team, it would be one of the best things that could happen to rF2 even if it is paid content.
In my 12 years of sim racing the best racing, fun times and memories have been online with a bunch of silly old buggers sliding around in cars as old or older than us.
Yes of coarse some people will always want the latest and (as the saying goes) greatest computer controlled human assisted virtual vehicle to race around in and they have every right to expect and enjoy modern cars with all the tech bells and whistles in a sim that is constantly evolving.

Just don't forget that "old" doesn't mean "abandoned".

One of the most popular racing series we have in Oz is the Touring Car Masters
It's like the restomod of racing.
Old cars with young running gear. You could say it's lamb dressed as mutton. ;)
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I strongly agree ;-) I'm not the biggest fan of modern racing cars myself (much prefer the 80's and 90's), but I understand the business side of this - this what's appealing to the general public. I mean what creates more hype: McLaren Senna GTR or BMW E30 DTM? To me the latter, but fact of the matter is that the Senna has much broader appeal to those who heaven't lived thru the 90's for instance.
 
mantasisg said:
Trying to get technical, I would describe rF2 cars being too planted as tolerating slip ratio too well
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Yep. Have to agree. Atleast the gt3s feels so forgiving that it's hard to believe it being realistic. When drifting (porsche with soft tires) and temps rising up to 200 at the back, i would think there would be clear drop in the grip, but i didn't really notice much. I hope s397 takes another look at those and maybe some other tires.
 
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Korva7 said:
Yep. Have to agree. Atleast the gt3s feels so forgiving that it's hard to believe it being realistic. When drifting (porsche with soft tires) and temps rising up to 200 at the back, i would think there would be clear drop in the grip, but i didn't really notice much. I hope s397 takes another look at those and maybe some other tires.
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Again, the Blancpain and many other GT series use the Pirelli DHD2 tyre which behaves more like a hard compound. Soft slicks are very sticky by their very nature and very fragile by their very nature, so if we're making comparisons to real life or other sims I would suggest the hard compound in rF2 is the way to go. Otherwise we're comparing apples to oranges. Not saying you're wrong just clarifying.
 
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