There supposed to do that, all mid engined cars suspension is set to do that, otherwise they spin around themselves all the time.
I am home, thank you. This argument has gone long without anybody persuading the other. I insist that no sane driver would accept such extreme handling as F1 60s, no matter how talented they are, should be easier. All other cars are just fantastic btw. Last thing I can say about this and Im left out of argument points, is that all people here who had GPL, agree that it was easier to drive F1 there. I remember too that Jackie Stuart drove F1 at GPL and commented that as he remembers, it was much easier in reality. thats all.
We - Simracer who drive sim cars Pro's - Racedriver who drive racecars Two completely different genres and you guys want to compare yourself with a video of a racedriver who never pushes the car in any situation with your sim-experience in a game that is trying to simulate a different car on a different track with different pc setups and equipment. Yeah I still say that this is non-sense.
Agree that comparing real onboards to any sim experience is complete nonsense. I still don't believe that 60s rf2 have realistic handling though, based on comparison to other old cars from other sims.
To be honest I'm sick of the modern society attitude that everyone's opinion on everything has the same value. That's wrong. If you know more about something, your opinion has higher value. If someone says that 2+2 is 5, I feel that it is my right to call him a stupid idiot, but I'm afraid there will always be someone to shout at me "hey its his opinion, it's his right to think whatever he wants!" If you say you can judge cars behaviour from onboard video, please have some arguments to back it up, else I agree with Flaux its just nothing more than nonsense.
So, better go back some milleniums ago where your argument is as big as your stick (lol). and you can prove your knowledge about the subject? I suppose you were there, racing 60s racers. you dont have the right to call anyone like that, you should know that, its been taught at junior school Since some pages we ve past that and the argument evolved to, is F1 60s behaviour realistic or not. Perhaps you didnt realize it? If you cannot recognise the arguments stated and you dont realize the sense of it all perhaps your insult returns to you by your own actions?
Actually, I am trying to encourage the exact opposite of this. Today if you're noisy and/or famous and/or rich enough (in certain group of people), your opinion on anything receives certain value. I believe opinions should only have value if you know something about the issue or just have experiences (those are often more useful than theory ofc). You don't see me commenting on Roger Federer's matches because the only thing I know about tennis is that is played using a small ball. My knowledge about those cars is very little. I'm sure there are people on this forum who know much more about it; I never said the opposite. And I'm just 22 years old btw. I just keep saying that in all other sims these cars are 1000x easier to drive, hence I think it shouldn't be that hard in rf2. Else it means every single other sim was completely dead wrong. After all you find those cars hard to drive as well so what do we argue about, lol. I think I do, else the society wouldn't get anywhere. Of course I didn't mean it literally, as if someone is mentally retarded I would never dare to say that to him or her.... I did, but I thought its worth mentioning again because its ridiculous to see people over and over again on various forums doing conclusions on cars from videos. But we can move over now yeah it was enough.
In what games exactly? GPL was definitely harder, and pCARS is also harder, with added understeer, the only rF1 mod I've seen with them is about equal. What games have had 60s F1 cars lately? And to you guys complaining about the "harder = more realistic" mentality, "easier = more realistic" isn't any better. Some cars are harder than others, some are easier. Discussion is one thing, and good arguments carry weight (but being good at debating has never meant anyone is right), but in the end I'll trust ISI over anyone here using only random videos to prove their points.
Well GPL seems easier to me. Didn't try pCars (and never will). 60s and 70s rf1+gtr2 mods are definitely much easier but those are suspiciously easier gotta admit, so those don't have much value. Not sure if we're talking about the same mods, if you tried the F-1-classics (not sure if its ok to mention here) mod you can't say its about equal. That mod is so easy. But in GPL it definitely is easier for me to stay on the road. In rf2 even if I try to go slow the cars are so evil and unpredictable to me (spark especially).
have you taken into account the following: 1) the physics of the games are vastly different 2) the tire model of the games are vastly different 3) RealRoad technology I fail to see how comparing to a game that came out, when? 10+ years ago was it? (not actually sure thats a genuine question!) to a game that came out 6months ago (and its continually improved upon) can in anyway be fully jusitfied. Again not saying you're wrong and the 60s cars are exactly as they should be, they could be far from it, but to me its like comparing a real life car to that of its enhanced model companion released 10 years later....i.e. pretty pointless!
OK, I'll take the troll bait one more time... First off, nobody (at least in this thread) has really implied "to be realistic it must be difficcult". Get off that line Chump. And the "fanboys" name calling is kind of juvenille. Glad you revealed your age. That explains a lot. I've never raced any real car so I can only resort to the rather weak argument of comparing sims. Using the comparison to GPL (the only other sim I ever played... for 10 years) I'd have to say that many of the behaviours I see in rF2 happen also in GPL. Maybe not to exact same degree but the same stuff happens. I see a lot of similarity. One huge leap in rF2 is how much feeling I get in the FFB. That may be why rF2 seems more difficult. The wheel is pushing forces we never felt in GPL. Since rF2 modeling is much more modern and complex, and GPL is acknowledeged by it's creators to be lacking in tire model accuracy (and who knows what else), I have to give my nod (quess, vote) to rF2 as likely being more accurate and a technical improvement on what has been an extremely enjoyabe pastime sim for a decade. Perfect match to 60s F1 reality? Not likely. No one in the this community can judge that accuracy with even 75% degree of certainty. But honestly, it's just an f'n game. Once it gets finialized I intend to race it. I raced GPL for 10 years knowing it was not super accurate. Difficult? Yes. But accurate? No. Fun? You betcha, and I think rF2 60's will match that fun and challenge and then some. It's not impossible to get consistant and good at rF2 60s F1. I'll adjust my driving style to work with whatever final physics they end up with and just race it. As Mark has stated before, if your not up to the challenge then that's fine, race something else. Question for F2Chump, did you race GPL much? Back to the debate on feel and accuarcy... Somewhere back, somebody alluded to difficulty in feeling the car's behavior under braking. I get excellent feeling under braking. I can feel every wiggle the car makes. It's extremely immersive and makes hard braking easier because I can make corrections in steering. It makes me want to ask what wheel and pedals everyone is using? I wonder if this could make a difference in their perception of the fidelity of the model and their ability to quickly sense the balance and make corrections. I use a CSR non-elite. It has very good sensitivity on either side of zero-force, i.e., no FFB deadzone. This allows me to feel subtle forces under braking and also the road bumps. My previous G27, while a great wheel in many ways, lacked the ability to deliver these subtleties without rattling.
OK I realize some of my posts sound aggressive which I didn't want to, and all this leads nowhere, not sure if it helps ISI in any way so I'll stop it here. Maybe it's just frustration that these cars feel so different from what I expected and I don't want to adapt driving style so vastly to match them so I'll just go back to rf1 (again). There's still plenty of combos I haven't tried there...
I don't consider myself by any means highly skilled in simracing, I have tried driving a good variety of cars in different sims over the years however. I think it has to be acknowledged that the 60s F1 cars have always been among the most difficult cars to drive, that is even evident going back to Grand Prix Legends. They are very different to drive than most other cars we are used to in sim racing...they require a degree of delicacy and finesse, if you try to muscle them around you are in for a lot of disappointment. But that seems standard in almost any sim quality version of these cars, so I think that supports the idea that many people with excellent data as to how these cars functioned all came to similar results. They become easier to drive, I find, when you realize it will take considerable time to work up to actually going fast. Just start out lapping fairly slowly to get an understanding of how much power you can apply and when, etc. eventually imo it starts to feel more natural to drive these cars when they are given that kind of respect and you don't expect to be highly proficient in them after just a few days. That said, I agree that they are not a "comfortable" car to drive, and do not necessarily provide a form of casual fun...I don't think at this point I would feel comfortable running them in competitive races, just because absolutely, a small mistake at speed is magnified in these cars it seems, but I think that is true to reality. I WILL say that driving these beasts around Spa is one of the more thrilling experiences I have ever had driving a sim car, and I applaud ISI for NOT dumbing these cars down, and trying to replicate the breathtaking nature of driving these glorious machines. Just my 2 cents. Oh, quick comment about the RF1 '37 mod: I have tried it a bit, it really is an incredible piece of work, they even replicate the way drivers would lean their bodies in turns...which can be a bit confusing at first but once you get into it it is really immersive! Unfortunately I have had to uninstall it as it crashes a lot, and I cannot load other mods with it installed, despite following the directions supplied in the thread on Rfactor Central. Really looking forward to an update where these issues are fixed though, because it definitely is a different experience driving those cars! And you know, I think they are even more challenging than the 60s cars, as they probably should be!
Thanks! (as I worked on that mod) Have you downloaded the fix for alfa? Here http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?m91kgy90fkkqar6 If still doesn't work, set DX9 in config and max car details ingame. All this has solved crashes for everybody so far.
I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but those who feel the 60s F1 cars are hard to drive should try a track other than Spa. I have serious problems getting more than 4 laps in a row and far more often I crash on every lap. When I do get a clean lap in the Eve F1C (no wings) I am lucky getting low 3:30s. Only once have I broken the 3:30 barrier in that car. For comparison I was able to get 3:14s on the same track in GPL. Now if I take the Eve F1C at Monza 1967 (no bankings) I am much more consistent. I can get mid 1:27s - low 1:28s fairly consistently for lap after lap and I could see me improving that by a second or two easily. Spa I just cannot seem to get faster at all. For some reason the Spa 1967 track sends my car crazy, the steering is jumping from side to side making the car misbehave badly. I just think the track is far to bumpy with too many potholes. I understand it is a road track and that Monza is a dedicated race circuit but I can't believe Spa was this dangerous to drive. Honesty, the same car on these two different tracks is a completely different experience.
