Lets talk about the MERC GT3 FFB?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LokiD, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    The question was asked on the official forum yesterday, in the appropriate thread. No answer.

    On the other hand discord, always first.

    Anyway, thank you for the info.
     
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  2. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

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    actually they did something.Interested in the "new default setup" impact

    Mercedes AMG GT3
    v2.75
    BOP

    • Fuel consumption tweaked to match reference for BoP.
    Physics

    • Reworked aerodynamics (more sensitive to changes in ride heights),
    • Reduced engine inertia,
    • Fix for radiator cooling options not showing properly in the pitmenu,
    • Added 10% steps for radiator cooling.
    • New default setup
    In-car dash

    • Added Engine Mixture levels
    • Added ABS levels
     
  3. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

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    Tried it this morning, zero improvemet in steering feel. Understeer like hell and wheel goes super light, nothing if you try to provoke oversteer either.

    The bentley on the other hand oh boy she is really good and fun with assists off and tc at 0
     
  4. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    Apparently S397 is going to fix things in this car.

    I am curious to know if it is the FFB, which I like but of which I do not know if it is as realistic as on the other GT3, or if the FFB is correct when confronted with the physics, and if the physics are also realistic (I think).

    In any case, a quick note on this from S397 would be nice when the changes have been made.
     
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  5. J7166

    J7166 Registered

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    I'll be honest that is a bit frustrating. I'm on discord a lot so I see most of it but, they'll tell you the forum is the proper place to post issues, but you are 1000x more likely to get acknowledgement for an issue or response on discord.
     
  6. tlsmikey

    tlsmikey Registered

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    Just tried the Merc again after the latest update. Why is this car still broken in terms of ffb? It's been like this since release and there are 13 pages of people complaining about it. I just don't get it.

    The steering just goes super light the moment there is any understeer in the car. Kind of feels like a caster issue.
     
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  7. J7166

    J7166 Registered

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    Wonder if this something that could be seen on like a FFB meter, like one from sim hub? Or even from Motec? Not sure if that's possible but all the evidence we can collect should help
     
  8. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    There were Motec graphs that clearly showed it. I don’t know if in this thread or the other one. Lack of evidence is not a problem here.
     
  9. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    The fix didn't make it this update, but is first thing on the list now. This has been said on the Discord by Chris. So, fingers crossed for you merc drivers
     
  10. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    The funny thing is: It´s so obviously wrong for everybody driving it first time after (seriously) the very first corner, that you think S397 must know about it and they would have fixed immediatly (why not before release? Test team...exist?) - in case it is wrong. The only logical conclusion is that S397 thinks it is not wrong. Else they would have fixed it 3 years ago, no?
     
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  11. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    While many of us agree with your statement, there is a rather large group that feels the Merc is the only perfect ffb in rF2. I'm as baffled as anyone since it is so at odds with most of the rest of the rF2 fleet. I think we have seen several car updates since Rudy Van Buren was hired(hope I speed that correctly) I hope he has been tasked with examining the many complaints we've lodged over the years. I still maintain that some text error must exist for this one car to be 180 degrees opposite from the bulk of rF2's cars. If the car behaved correctly when controlled by the AI, then our argument against the merc would be less valid. Watching the AI try to keep the car pointed in the right direction is painful. (especially when you consider how well the various Mercs are doing in the real world these days)
     
  12. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    There already was a lot of discussion. Thing is that it is not clear if Merc FFB is wrong. Just tell you, GT3 Merc is my absolute favorite GT3 car cause of FFB. It gives me a lot more details than any rF2 GT3. So I own all 12 (soon 13 ) GT3s but I only drive GT3 Merc, cause in my opinion by far best FFB. But we already had that long discussions ... I think it depends on the wheel ... low end, mid end or high end. (I own a mid end 10 Nm wheel, Fanatec CSRE with upgraded FFB industrial motors)
     
  13. Erhan Jajovski

    Erhan Jajovski Registered

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    I agree with you. Merc is my best car to drive too, feeling wise.
     
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  14. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Yeah, but who ar...... nevermind.... :)
     
  15. RoWo

    RoWo Member

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    For me again the question is: Why no S397 stuff member around here, who could tell us the truth?
     
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  16. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    Only one thing. Should GT3 Merc FFB really depend on the wheel used. Low end, mid end, high end. And in my case (mid end) I only drive the GT3 Merc cause of FFB. Cant you give us at least that one GT3? You can use all other 12 GT3s. Or do you really want it all?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  17. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    You see before I started racing, I did ww2 combat flight sims (warbirds, aces high). I learned a lot about technics of airplanes. The control surfaces back then, without force support, had some physical balance of forces to reduce the forces on the stick. That means if you move the aillerons, some mechanical tricks would reduce the forces to do so, because no pilot had the physical power to deflect the big control surfaces into the wind at 600km/h just so like holding a hand out of the window of a car on the Highway.
    Now back to the problem
    The Problem back then was to reduce the forces while to avoid an overcontrol, say the forces would even increase the deflection. And the pilot must have a Feedback. This was actually a requirement to get the license for the airplane. And the ME109 for example did not get an Update, much inferior to the fw190 in terms of aillerons, because the process to get the license was too demanding.

    And this is why me and so many believe the AMG is off because it has no Feedback and is at the edge of physical overcontrol
     
  18. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    @Stefan_L_01 sry, i don't know what you are talking about. You talk about flight simulations and conclude by that flight simulation example that many rF2 simracers are wrong and many other rF2 simracers are right. Sry. We talk about a specific problem, specific to rF2, specific to GT3 content and specific to GT3 Merc. We don't need allegories to flight sim.
     
  19. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    I talk about principles of operating mechanics somehow. And no I think many simracers are right and few are off. Sry.

    And maybe just think like this: The AMG is not the only front engine car, and even if you say it has engine on front, the weight balance is similiar to other cars. so why should it behave so much different than the others? The Bently is afaik front mounted, has more weight on front axis, does it behave like this?
     
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  20. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Everytime I subconsciously see "FFB" written somewhere in front of my face, I instantly know that it is very likely going to be some weird, unclear, uninformed, abstract opinions that will miss out reasonable look at the physics.

    My take on this is..... - forget FFB. There is small amount FFB in rF2, the less FFB stuff the better. It is strength, smoothing and min force. No more FFB. What we have is steering torque specifics, that might be bit weird in some times, and it is all physics.

    What I am trying to do is trying to reform idea of what FFB is and try to give the fair share of it that belongs to physics, that we might call steering torque from physics engine and parameters of cars.

    Steering going light at understeer definitely isn't an error, it is legit possible effect. However, the problem might indeed be FFB alone, it might be that lower strength FFB wheels just lacks strength to maintain reasonable force at the drop of pneumatic trail.

    I am not daring to read through the thread now. Besides being annoyed by steerign force going very low at understeer because of some personal taste issues, can anyone who uses more powerful steering wheel, like 8-10Nm and more tell if Merc steering torque at its lowest (when understeering) isn't 0 ? Or is it ?
     
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