Lets talk about the MERC GT3 FFB?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LokiD, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

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    @LokiD

    sorry for reviving this thread but I bought the game some weeks ago and cant get the FFB right on my TSPC Racer, especially on this car. Did you ever manage to find a working setting that you could share?
    This one is working so damn well on the other Sims I own so I would really like to get the same experience in Rf2

    thanks so much

    Oli
     
  2. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    I don't know what (maybe) is wrong with this car, but a lot of people say FFB is bad. When I take it, I take pleasure.
     
  3. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

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    Yes i dont seem to be an isolated case

    I really would like to love drving this car because I confess, I am an AMG tuned benz owner
     
  4. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    I think this car drives great. I has a pronounced under-steer characteristic if you are trying to overdrive it. A strong wheel will help this car make sense because it becomes harder to turn in past the point of useful slip angle.
     
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  5. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    Could you send me your controller.json and I will look for issues?

    Make sure you have the assists turned off.
     
  6. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

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    hello

    I think the TSPC Racer at 6Nm is a decently strong wheel and also to really transmit even minor forces so thats why I never set Min Force for example, always at Zero.and yes I am always running with all assists Off

    I just had another 30mins run with most of the GT3 Pack cars and the AMG is really lifeless to me in comparison to the rest of the crew, this is so annoying.

    I am attaching 2 json files, the Controller which is Userdata/Player and the TS PC mod which is the one in Userdat/Controller that I am using with every car. Except the In game FFB parameters, I left it as default

    thanks for any suggestions you can share

    Oli
     

    Attached Files:

  7. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    min FFB torque is not that much about your wheels strength. its about the linearity of your wheels FFB (mechanics, motor control circuit and motors). many wheels have an offset at zero/low forces in linearity -> which leads to a deadzone. min FFB torque can correct that.

    BTW you can check your wheels FFB linearity by using iRacings WheelCheck.exe downloadable on internet. and from the results you see your wheels offset on the graph, from which you can tell what min FFB torque to set ideally.

    I have a Fanatec CSRE wheel upgraded to 10Nm high quality industrial FFB motors. Linearity is almost perfect, so for me no need to set FFB min torque higher.

    And BTW, I love the GT3 AMG most of all GT3s cause of its FFB (on my wheel). It gives me more details on FFB than any other GT3. For me best GT3 cause of FFB. (and many other say that too. i guess this could be cause of wheel quality and linearity)

    EDIT: I use GT3 AMG default setup.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
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  8. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    I have found a few problems with your active controller Json (and it doesn't match your tspc profile by the way)

    1.Click default on the TM control panel page, set to default, and then set the rotation to 1080, apply and exit.

    2.Drop the attached file into:
    \Steam\steamapps\common\rFactor 2\UserData\Controller

    3.Load Rf2 and go to the controller setting page, click load profile. Find the file TSPC721 and click load.

    4. Make sure the 'vehicle set' option is ticked in controller options.

    5. Click race. FFB multiplier in game should normally be between 60-100

    Hopefully this will sort it all out.

    On a side note. The Mercedes GT3 characteristic people describe is just understeer. Understeer can feel very different depending on the suspension geometry. I personally really enjoy driving the Mercedes. In real life, on a medium speed corner, the driver would likely have to apply a heafty amount of force (8-12nm) to the wheel in order to get the point where this understeer happens. And similarly, on a DD wheel, you really have to try hard to push the car into that understeering stage. Also a higher caster angle would normally reduce this characteristic but unfortunately they are fixed in the GT3 pack. You should try to get more weight over the front of the car with the brakes on turn in, and avoid high slip angles under acceleration.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
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  9. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    You have already shown far more understanding of physics than I, but I want to disagree.(carefully watching where I step for an obvious pile of cow manure I'm gonna step in.)

    If it were only understeer, then all the front engined cars would, in some form, exhibit the same behavior. The Bentley, the Callaway, the Aston, should mimic what the Merc is doing, at least to some degree. You would almost assume that cars with mid to rear placed engines would be prone to understeer since much more weight is located to the rear.

    Also the AI. The AI cars car race in a pack relatively closely bunched EXCEPT for the poor Merc. It plows through corners like a ski boat. Again, if more of the other front engined cars were also farming instead of racing, I'd tend to agree. There is just something 'wrong' with the Merc. I will admit, however, you are not alone among those who do prefer or enjoy the Merc's ffb, so perhaps I'm just guilty of incorrect expectations.
     
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  10. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    There is more than engine layout when speaking of oversteer vs understeer properties. Mechanical stiffness balance, plus aerodynamic balance will always be highly influential. Wheel alignment, differential. Gearing, torque to the tires of driving axle. Of course - the tires. And last but not least - the driver, one driver can find a car to be oversteer monster. other might find the same car understeer monster. I watched Vic Elford in YT talking about classic 911 and how most people complained about lots of oversteer, while for him the car seemed too understeery. It is possible that Merc understeer more than other similar cars, I don't know, I drive these cars very rarely. Steering going light might tricl the perception, causing you think that it understeer even more since it is a bold feel. Maybe S397 should have risked some clipping for Merc FFB nominal value, and had made it bit higher.

    If I'd launch rF2 now, I'd try softening front arb or hardening rear arb of merc, pushing downforce bias to the front a bit - that effectively would make car more likely to oversteer. Then to make the car less snappy I'd use small steering lock for wheels not to steer too much, that would actually make steering lighter further, but it would probably not go so much lighter when understeering, and driver would be less likely to cause understeer. Then for even less fast front slip angle growth I'd increase front toe out. Perhaps people were already suggesting those things, I haven't scanned the thread properly.
     
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    This is a common misconception. In a corner the tyres are moving the car mass sideways. More weight over an axle means more mass to move, and that end will (very generally) lose traction first.
     
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  12. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    So are you saying that the Gran Turismo 2 manual was lying to me?
     
  13. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Not sure, I never read it :p

    I should have avoided the use of "weight" as dynamic weight transfer does have the intended effect. People tend to extend that to static weight balance, which is where it's wrong.
     
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  14. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    Interestingly, according to this video at least, the Merc in not a typical front engine rear drive car like the other FR GT3s. And is instead a Front-Mid engine car. The engine's center of mass is somewhat behind the front wheels, and the transmission is right near the back wheels.

    This explains it's unusual shape, and perhaps partly is why it has that characteristic understeer.

     
  15. JimmyT

    JimmyT Registered

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    I was having the FFB issue with the Merc (only the Merc) with my Fanatec CSW 2.5 (and everyone said "it's understeer learn to drive") I deleted my controller json and started with a fresh one. After re-mapping my keys and all the usual stuff, I found that the car was now a pleasure to drive. So @nolive721 try the controller.json and let us know if that does the trick. Let these guys punch on over weight distribution, car setup, camber, castor and engine position, they'll go on for days :D and there's probably nothing you can do with any of that in this sim anyway. :rolleyes::D
     
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  16. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Wheelcheck is not accurate.
    I have T300 and it goes light as described by many with the Merc AMG. Strangely others say it’s FFB is great, even another T300 user claimed that.
     
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  17. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I don't think it is that simple, but perhaps thats what "very generally" means. In corners tires move sideways and forward too. So there are lateral and longitudinal components. And although axle has more work to do, because more load it has better friction than less loaded axle, and although there are more weight on certain end of the car, it doesn't necessarily mean that there also will happen most of the load transfer, or does it ? There also are different phases of going through curve. Which leads to the dynamics of driving and the way car is set to respond to transients (the cars setup), which is very much depending on what driver does, how is he managing weight, accelerating, braking and steering all together.

    But if car would be let to go all completely sideways with all wheels on same surface and same starting temps and velocities, surely heavier end will always pass the lighter end immediately. Sliding friction is also the factor, but it would be generally very similar front and rear, or would it ? :D

    I think all dominantly RWD cars should be possible to drive in neutral manner with correct setup and correct approach by the driver. Except perhaps aero, if aero is too unbalanced and not adjustable enough, it would probably be too hard to manage that most of the time when it kicks in at high speed.
     
  18. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

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    ok.I am trying this in my early Japanese morning and it seems the dynamics of the car are indeed getting better, closer to what the right balance of IRL car is.

    But having 1080deg set in TM Control panel makes it awful to drive for me, sorry I am more direct steering guy.its not great on a GT3,I can only imagine how bad it will be on the Open wheeler.
    is that 1080deg a fundamental set up to fix this issue? As I said, I dont have similar problems with other GT3s with 450deg set in TMC CP so I am wondering what went wrong with the AMG if you could share some lights just for my curisoity?

    I am out for the day but will try to do more testing in my Japanese evening in any case and will report back
     
  19. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    I have forgotten to say : make sure the 'vehicle set' is ticked in controller options. This will automatically set your wheel rotation to match the real vehicle (up to 1080 degrees)

    You will never have to change the control panel settings from now on - leave it set at 1080.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
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  20. JimmyT

    JimmyT Registered

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    That's what it was doing with my Fanatec 2.5 csw and as mentioned here
    If you move your controller.json from the \Steam\steamapps\common\rFactor 2\UserData\player folder and put it somewhere as a backup, restart the game and re map the keys into a new controller, it may solve your problem. Can't guarantee it will work, but for 5 minutes mucking about, it couldn't hurt to give it a go. If you experience any issues with the new controller.json just restore your backup. Nothing to lose except a little of your time. Good luck.
     

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