Let's talk about punctures in rFactor2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JParra, Nov 17, 2022.

  1. JParra

    JParra Registered

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    I am not sure if punctured tires exist in rFactor 2 today as they did in rFactor 1.

    I know that in the damage file there are several parameters to manage damage and cuts both for tires and for the complete wheel with its rim.

    But I've run into cars lately that even at 0% wear still don't blow up like they did in the past and while looking back I can't remember the last time I saw a puncture in rFactor2

    Are they still possible, but are they intentionally avoided by modders?

    I personally think that if rFactor 2 claims to have the most realistic tire model of all the simulators, punctures should be considered as part of that simulation.

    And I am not just referring to an explosion due to wear at the end of the tire's useful life or cuts from hitting walls or other cars, but also taking into account the possibility of slow punctures due to, for example, debris on the road.

    Thanks for your clarifications.
     
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  2. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    No, rF2 has never had punctures AFAIK. The debris cuts etc worked in rF1 but not in rF2.
     
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  3. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I don't really care about punctures, as it is so much about probabilities and chances... But I would like them to be loosing pressure in case tires are underinflated bellow manufacturer designed pressures.
     
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  4. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I haven't used Crew Chief in some time due to WINDOWS not being able to understand my Coca Cola caused raspy voice. But I remember I would get warnings about a flat tire when the HUD tire box didn't show any issue.
     
  5. JParra

    JParra Registered

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    On a personal level, we may like more or less that there are punctures, but the point is that if rF2 has the tire model that best simulates reality, it should include punctures, since it is an important part that affects the tires and races, in real life.

    Isn't it at least curious that he doesn't contemplate it? More having had a predecessor than if he had it.
     
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  6. ThomasJohansen

    ThomasJohansen Registered

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    Puncture would be a "nice to have" feature, but only if its a result of your driving, and not a random lottery algorithm.
     
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  7. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    Not exactly on Topic, but some Time ago, we've got the Possibilty to use the Tire "Pressure-Indicators"
    TPressLF
    TPressLR
    TPressRF
    TPressRR
    in the Cars HUDs (we use them in our SMMG F3 2019-2022 Mod).
    But they probably only show when a Tire Pressure is out of the, in the HDV predefined, Pressure Range.
    But maybe it's also an Indicator, that it is planned to get Punctures back....
     
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  8. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I don't like the random issues either, but it would be the same as the lifetime random variance that have the engines of some cars.
     
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  9. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    I think no one would like to be taken out of a race because of a (or almost) random puncture. If they could avoid them at any cost in real life for sure they would.

    But in extreme circumstances there could be a little probability of a puncture, like when hitting a high curb hard, or when tires are near 0% and driving off road / being hard on the tires. It would add more reasons to care about the tires.
     
  10. JParra

    JParra Registered

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    I think that is very clear, nobody wants random punctures for the mere fact of simulating the bad luck of reality.
    But taking the tires beyond the wear limit, hitting large debries from other accidents, violently hitting a curb or wall... that should result in a puncture in a very high probability if what we want is to simulate.

    It could vary between a slow puncture or a tire blowout, but something should happen to it.

    Why not, we could even have an on/off switch for random punctures, in case you want to have an immersive sim racing experience.
     
  11. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I think simulating a puncture with a (quasi) physical tyre model would be very difficult, assuming the goal is to stay true to the ethos of rF2 and not employ some kind of canned physics. Think about the almost unlimited amount of physical states a flat tyre might cause, for example, pulling away from the rim, possibly the rim interacting with the road surface etc etc etc. I wouldn't bet on it happening any time soon. But I sure hope I'm wrong!
     
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  12. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Lets say puncture happens in rF2 as it is today, then what ? Grip keeps increasing as tire keeps loosing pressure ? :D
     
  13. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    That's how it should be, the grip increases as long as the suspension can keep pushing that tire against the ground with the same force, or the tire's rotational speed makes up for the low pressure.

    It's bad if the grip decreases, but it's also bad if the grip increases because you would have less/more grip in one tire than the others giving an imbalance. And this is dynamic, it's not the same when the car is going straight than turning towards the punctured tire or away from it, or even breaking. The grip of the punctured tire would fluctuate dramatically.

    All of this must be working correctly, and a punctured tire will wear down faster or slower depending on the grip it has at any given moment, same as a good tire, more grip more wear, less grip less wear.

    Add to this that you need data about how the tires behave at low pressures. That's probably not measured by the manufacturer and it would add a ton more data than tires already need to be simulated.

    It would add a lot more dynamism but it would also add more complexity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
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  14. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Actually we can say that a punctured tire make the maximum grip, so much to cause drag and intense heat, until the tire selfdestruct.
     
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  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Too much bellow usable pressures normal tires just can't work. Loosing rigidity, loosing geometry, attachment to the rim becomes very weak. Funny story, I heard in Kunos forums when they released 917/30, supposedly car was so powerful and grip was so intense - the rim was spinning through in the tire lol Imagine that tire being underinflated it can't work anymore.
     
  16. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Maybe it's a niche within a niche, but this "No one wants random punctures" suggestion has got me feeling defensive. For a number of years in rF1 I took part in a league where there was a significant random factor in getting a puncture from hitting debris or another car, and engine life was randomised enough that occasional failures would happen through no direct fault of the driver.

    I fully understand that equal machinery and no lucky/unlucky breaks can be guaranteed in simulation, and that's definitely a good thing in many situations, but if you're simulating real racing you may want to simulate those real factors too.

    Unfortunately the "let's not do this unless we do it properly" mentality is definitely a hurdle when it comes to punctures and potential knock-on effects. I just wish rF2 had started without a transmission, who knows what we could have got 3 years later :p
     
  18. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    @Lazza i agree with you with this theoretically, but when you are doing a perfect race, avoiding high revs and decreasing gears in the correct way and your engine breaks at the final part of the race, you forget that you agree with the theory. It's frustrating when you check the telemetry of other people who are abusing the engine and finished the race.
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    As I said, it's probably a niche within a niche. Most people don't want that level of realism, and that's cool. But I was ok with it, even when it went wrong for me.
     
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  20. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    You agree more than me with that theory :D
    That race is etched in my mind.:rolleyes:
     
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