Le Mans Virtual 24 hours 2023, Verstappen rages

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AlexHeuskat, Jan 15, 2023.

  1. Owen Pyrah

    Owen Pyrah Registered

    Joined:
    May 26, 2022
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    62
    I'm on an rF2 forum right now. But I'm also on the assetto corsa forum and probably most of all on the iRacing forum. Sure there's biases, but I think mainly among people who only play a single sim.

    Like @Lizardfolk, if people on the iRacing forum start saying how bad rF2 is you would probably read it and say "true", "agreed", "hey what on earth are you talking about?", "yeah sort of", "miles off base there". But if you had no experience of rF2 you may hop on the bandwagon and start doxxing rF2 developers or attacking special events, trolling social media or whatever.

    I don't think I'm alone in having played a few different sims in my 30 odd years of mucking about with pretend race cars. So when you see people on forums, there's going to be a good chunk who have a more balanced and pragmatic view. But then you also have this witch hunt going on which is pretty alarming really. I mean things I've seen in the last few days:

    1. Likely a malicious attack against one of the biggest sim events in the year.
    2. Attack most likely committed by sim racers
    3. Strong narrative on social media saying that this is just how rF2 is all the time.
    4. In response to the statements about the attack, there's been an almost troll farm like organisation in people saying it was done to protect share price or something like that. Like literally "WAKE UP SHEEPLES IT HAPPENED WHEN IT STARTED TO RAIN!!".
    5. In response to Max saying he's fed up with how the race went after all that prep I've seen people crowing over how glad they are his race was ruined because it really makes rF2 look bad and all exclusive deals should go to iRacing instead.

    This sect of the iRacing community can be pretty relentless really. But it's not just them. I remember seeing similar gloating around the grass dipping, brake dragging and the iRacing server issues. I think it would do everyone some good to race a different sim now and then. Try to find at least 3 things they like about it and then go back to whichever one they prefer.

    Because at the end of the day, this is super niche and no one benefits from a monopoly. Variety is always good too. Like if you want the best GT3 experience, it's probably going to be had on ACC. If you want the best online experience, it's probably going to be on iRacing. If you want the best simulator, it's probably going to be rFactor 2. Why cut off your nose to spite your face? I'm not saying this is all you as probably half of us here also have some kind of involvement with iRacing too. Just saying this is something in the community that anyone with an ounce of pragmatism ought to be stamping out when they see it. Regardless of whether MSGM did something to deserve it, two wrongs don't make a right.
     
    UGM 133A, tiffarno, memoNo1 and 3 others like this.
  2. I_Bellett

    I_Bellett Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    278
    Currently, iRacing cannot use INDYCAR's trademarks to hold events or races, but it is possible to use a pseudonym to run the same style of racing. Rather than getting angry with MSG (or rF2), we should think that there was a problem on iRacing's side that did not contract with the conditions (or license fee) presented by INDYCAR. Also, since iRacing signed a deal with Supercars, we haven't seen a new Gen2 car in Forza or Gran Turismo. Personally, I think this should be called an "exclusive deal".

    The story has diverged greatly. Unlike last year's event, this year's Le Mans Virtual 24 hours revealed that it has various challenges. I expect Studio 397 will present new information and ways to improve in the coming weeks.
     
    atomed likes this.
  3. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,275
    Likes Received:
    389
    Isn't it so that Indycar doesn't want that (anymore) since they are producing their own game as we speak?
    They actually are, so that seems logical.
     
  4. Comante

    Comante Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,700
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    I wish to remember that just recently RF2 lost Silverstone, so.. what can I say: S%&T happens!
     
  5. Gökhan Yamaer

    Gökhan Yamaer Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    In real life, you would pull a security ring against outside interference.
    Online then you might have to pull a safety ring out of time. Broadcast 24 hours later instead of live streams.

    Absolute "contractual" secrecy of the server could possibly also help to sensitize people. Simulates not only the race but also a duty of confidentiality with penalties and disquali....
     
    MikeV710 likes this.
  6. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    3,130
    Hi, thanks for chimin' in. I hope you don't take my initial post as an attack against iRacers, thatswhy I said that I hope that the comments posted by "some" individuals on different platforms are from a minority and don't represent the whole iRacing userbase. I am old enough to know that you will find good and bad apples in any basket and I would lie if I said that I am not biased. Mind you, I have been running iRacing myself for three months and enjoyed my time as much as with the other platforms that I have used over the years, including all major platforms. I try to look at this issue with an open mind.

    Anway, about the licencing issue: this is really an interesting one, because I have read statements by Indycar themself claiming that iRacing is allowed to run the IR18 at Indianapolis for 500 mile races. That was a response after iRacing gave their statement, but somehow this very important one has slipped under the radar as it seems with alot of people being emotionaly loaded after the EB video appeared and the iRacing statement itself. It's just that those events aren't officialy sanctioned. And this is where it might be worth to really check the facts before hopping onto a bandwagon. And I really hope that iRacing clarifies this has this clearly has caused some damage - you can make up your mind if it is intentional or not - over the last couple of weeks. And quite frankly, why should it be of interest for other companies that iRacing has a bad relationship with ACO or Indycar? Yep, it's unfortunate for the iRacing fans that they can't get certain tracks, but such is life and it's not just iRacing users being affected by licencing. We rF2 fans have lost our free Silverstone, while that track is in any other paltform. We all are in the same boat. That AMS2 issue is a bit of a different one as it only affects the car. I am pretty sure they could go a similar route like VRC or Racesim Studio that still offer their cars in the respective shops.

    This is my source btw:
    https://racer.com/2022/12/21/indycar-responds-to-iracing-licensing-agreement-changes/

    This is the iRacing Le Mans race with JB btw:


    So how is it possible that those events happen while some people claim that they don't happen? And the other question is if iRacing aren't allowed to host those event or if they aren't willed to do it? And how are they still able to have the IR18 licence while Reiza hasn't, eventhough they claim this to be an issue with exclusivety wich it obviously isn't? There are questions over questions but very few answers that make any sense. :)
     
    Owen Pyrah likes this.
  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,481
    Likes Received:
    6,654
    Well shoot, we're on page 6 anyway. Here's the indycar agreement with MSG:

    https://ir.motorsportgames.com/node/7121/html#ex10-1.htm

    1.7 is, I believe, the interesting one. To my brain the slight-legalese is a little ambiguous with number of Entries (number of real cars? Number of players?), though the track-lap-count seems fairly clear - except that, again with legalese, it may not quite mean what it seems (how much Indycar-theme do you need to come under that condition?). And all that being stuff that Indycar can agree to (with others) without MSG consent - which doesn't necessarily mean they'd block everything else.


    @hitm4k3r iRacing's license with Indycar ended in 2022, they're apparently in discussions for a new one. So I think they were able to do whatever they wanted in accordance with that existing agreement until Dec 31. Not sure if that helps, but anyway. oops, yep, wrong cars :p
     
  8. MikeV710

    MikeV710 Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2022
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    254
    I totally agree and would do...
     
  9. FERNANDO CABRERA

    FERNANDO CABRERA Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2020
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    116
    I think that sucks more is the people had access to the content in the past and was taken away by a contract.
    As some one point out it happened in rf2 with Silverstone track..... BUT given that rf2 is an open simulator people can install the track by their own means and create their own events with it.
    In iRacing case is not possible because iracing is monetizing their contend month by month and that goes against any exclusivity commercial agreement.

    Ams2 car also was stuck by this, and is unfortunate and is expected when "exclusive" deals are signed, and is the same risk a mod maker face day to day when creating a real life track, the track owner can use legal means for the mod to be removed and even to pay a fine to use their track without their authorization.
    We take many thing for granted or as free and forget that there's money behind a car, brand, location and at any given moment the owner may want compensation for their brand and use legal means to accomplish that.
    ... And is a shame, but that's the world were on at the moment.
     
  10. GregW5

    GregW5 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2022
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    11
    In regards to exclusive licensing….it takes two to tango. I understand why many folks hate MSG, but the ACO and Indycar could have insisted on non-exclusive licensing. It’s not like MSG did this by themselves.

    I’ve been with iRacing for 10+ years. That being said, I’ve never been a member of the ‘Cult of iRacing’. People in iRacing tend to believe everything iRacing is the best….FFB, physics, rendering, etc. and everything else sucks. iRacing could have got the Indycar license, but from what little I understand, Indycar insisted the license include a stand alone Indycar game. iRacing couldn’t or wouldn’t agree to that, so Indycar went elsewhere.

    iRacers that are upset over this need to look at iRacing.
     
    boxer and Owen Pyrah like this.
  11. FERNANDO CABRERA

    FERNANDO CABRERA Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2020
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    116
    Yes agree... If i recall correctly MSG has the licence to make the official NASCAR game for some time, but it's not an exclusive licence and allow other to licence the cars/tracks without calling it the official game.
    If the promoters/organizations allows for an exclusive licence and someone pays premium for it, then it will no surprise that that licence holder will enforce his bought rights... We had seen this happens in patents, and there are some patent trolls that only bought patents right and start to ask for money to patent infringing company
     
  12. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,941
    Likes Received:
    2,776
    Your message has arrived.
    And you are absolutely right.
    What did Einstein say?
    Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, but I'm not quite sure about the universe yet.
    It's bad for S397's reputation, but the investigation is ongoing.
    The last word hasn't been spoken yet.
     
  13. Art_Pereira

    Art_Pereira Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    308
    I bet that Verstappen doesn´t understand how internet works when you login into a server. Perhaps he doesn´t know that if he is located in the Netherlands and wants to connect to a server in New York, the connection is not direct and goes through several nods. And perhaps he doesn´t know that if a nod fails, you and only you get disconnected from the server. If other drivers are also using that nod, they get discoed too. So I understand he being dissapointed. What I can´t accept is that he blamed rF2 and the race authorities without, imho, any founded reason by adopting a childish attitude.
    I´ve been racing online since December 1999 and that shit happened to me several times. I am living in Argentina.

    On the other hand, server crashes happened with all carsims I raced with: Grand Prix Legends, NR2003, rFactor1, rFactor2. But they were extremely rare and usually caused by a server problem, coming from hardware or software failures.

    There is a lot of money behind the LeMansVirtual series so I guess the investigation will finally show what really happened and that the problem will be solved. However, if we talk about computers, the point it is not if they will fail. It is when that will happen.
     
    Rui Santos, r00b Driver and atomed like this.
  14. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    692
    Virtual Le Mans Controversies From A Drivers Perspective
     
  15. r00b Driver

    r00b Driver Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    145
    I'm amazed the Internet works at all!!
     
    Owen Pyrah, 8Ball and Art_Pereira like this.
  16. Art_Pereira

    Art_Pereira Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    308
    Indeed!
     
  17. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2020
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    613
    Internet works because it's fault tolerant, Max isn't. ;)
     
    memoNo1 likes this.
  18. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,941
    Likes Received:
    2,776
    Want to bet he'll be back next year?
     
    Art_Pereira likes this.
  19. trichens

    trichens Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    157
    Although it might be considered semantics MSG DON'T actually hold the licence for the Le Mans series races.
    They are however a 51% shareholder in Le Mans Esports Series Limited - registered in the UK - the other 49% of shares are owned by ACO. It used to be split MSG 45% and ACO 55% but that changed in January 2021.

    Interestingly the wording of the Form 10-K states - note the section I have highlighted in bold
    "Through our ownership interest in this joint venture, which was increased to 51% from 45% in January 2021, we secured the rights to be the exclusive video game developer and publisher for the 24 Hours of Le Mans race and the WEC through a separate license agreement. This license expires 10 years beginning from the date of our first release of a WEC or Le Mans race video gaming product with the term automatically renewing for an additional ten-year term unless ACO provides written notice of its intent not to renew."
     
  20. boxer

    boxer Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    185
    It sucks that the disconnects keep happening to one of current if not the most a high profile driver in the world... obviously this casts a negative cloud over rF2 whether deserved or not. I fully understand Max frustration with the event. Regarding iRacing not able to run these events, to those fans I say can go complain to iRacing as they are 100% in control of their licenses... just like S397 is responsible for losing Silverstone.
     

Share This Page