[WIP] Le Grand Circuit 1967 (in association with VLM)

Discussion in 'Locations' started by woochoo, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. Eric Rowland

    Eric Rowland Registered

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    It just wouldn't look "right" to drive the circuit and not see the "period correct" sponsor banners. It adds so much to the ambience of the experience to see BP, Esso, Antar, Total, Nutsy, Ferodo, etc, etc....
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    Like with Bathurst... There might be an authentic version with real life advertisement... It just requires a modder to do it :)
     
  3. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    There was no Nutsy signage in '67 ;)
    And the correct/desired ambience is the leverage point that those trademark/license holders have to play with, and that I couldn't pay for. I don't think they need us, especially for free.

    I think the usual suggestion that "this is free advertising for them" isn't so strong. If they want to advertise, they do, and they pay money to reach millions of eyeballs. I'd guess that free use in simracing is more likely to go wrong for them, than right, from their perspective.

    If I asked them, these medium/huge companies with a lot of interest in protecting their image, I think their first reply would be no reply. The second reply would be "no", and the third reply would be "pay us $someNumber to bask in our glow for your own purposes, and also comply with these terms". And i'm no one. I have no budget, and I don't have a company they could sue if i breach their terms.

    If they said "no", then I can assure you that I wouldn't then go and include the adds anyway. So, square one.

    For Longford I did contact "Donald Gorringe" as seen on the pedestrian bridge. They're a local company, and they were happy to allow me to reuse their name. I tried contacting some bigger companies and some were ok with it so long as the track was free, and some didn't reply despite a few attempts. And the really big companies, i didn't try.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  4. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    I've seen some tracks in rF2 use knock off names, like Ram Bull (Red Bull) Cokca kola (Coca Cola) or similar, is that something you will do?
    At speed they actually look quite legit.
     
  5. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    I've gone through a phase of joke/parody names, and I've decided I won't do that any more. Jokes get old, to me anyway, and i'd say every lap of a 24h race won't help with the longevity of the joke.

    You won't see things that look or sound out of place while at pace, or while stationary, or from trackside cams (well that's my intention anyway, and it's going to be subjective)
     
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  6. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    I know I'm a pain in the arse, but you got a ETA? Are you waiting for the" big update" from S397 before finalising things?
     
  7. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    It's hard to say.
    Maybe, 10 weeks, +/- 30 weeks :p
    That's is much more likely than 10 days, +/- 30 days.
    ETA: ages

    The 397 Dx11 update is likely to be ready before the track is, but i don't know about that either.
     
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  8. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Cheers, i look forward to it whenever it comes.
     
  9. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Ummm, 10 weeks +/- 30 weeks means you might have been finished 20 weeks ago ;)

    I fully understand and agree with your sentiments about the advertising. The whole legal realm is such a PITA these days that you shouldn't distract yourself from the artistry of what you are doing to bother with that crap.

    On the other hand, we all know that you will produce something extraordinary with your immense attention to detail. And because this is such an iconic track and you are reproducing a particular year/era, I hope you will remain open-minded to others providing the authentic advertising for those who care about these sorts of things (I am not one of them, just so you know). I can also see their point that to get so close to perfection with a track that everyone has waited since forever to have a top quality version and just not take that last step is quite frustrating.

    Thanks for your work on this. You have set the bar awfully high for yourself with your previous tracks!!
     
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  10. jpalesi

    jpalesi Registered

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    The right answer was : "when it's ready" :D

    Although I can understand the concern over branding, and risking a lot for a free hobby, more than a decade of modding in various games has shown that it shouldn't really be a problem.
    However, if there's one track that one has to be really careful with, it's "le grand circuit". Careful just like you'd be with "the red team", as the owners of that track are quite a pain in the a**. IIRC, 24 hour rFactor races has been cancelled because of them.
     
  11. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    I'm playing with fire here, I know, but if it was ready twenty weeks ago then "when it's ready" wouldn't really be accurate... :eek:
    Maybe I was ready to release it twenty weeks ago, but it wasn't finished :confused:
    let us not confuse the past with the future ;)
    Time have, are, and will change. In this particular case it's all well and good if times don't change, but I think it would be a long time before real sponsors offer to pay me to have their brands included where they were in real life. Imagine if they sued me for not including them :confused:

    Anyway, I'm more interested to see other people produce some non-ripped cars for this track. I hope if i build it they will come. From '56 to '67 this layout hosted a fantastic array of sports cars. Considering my stance on sponsors and licenses I should perhaps only encourage people to make cars reminiscent or evocative of that era, and I'd accept that if that's what people wanted to do. There is a goldmine of inspiration there :)
     
  12. Mike Cantwell

    Mike Cantwell Registered

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    There is. It was done a few months ago.
     
  13. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    That's... what I'm saying...
     
  14. bears

    bears Registered

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    woochoo really like your attitude :)
    You do great work real sponsors or not I will drive one of your tracks any day we are lucky you are so generous with your time
    Can't wait for this one...
     
  15. Eric Rowland

    Eric Rowland Registered

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    Indeed!
     
  16. Nitrometh

    Nitrometh Registered

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    Yep and his attention to detail is awesome. In Longford you can spend hours with driving around and looking at beautiful and lovely details. Details you will never see if you are driving like it is meant to be in a racing simulation :p
     
  17. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    Thanks for the compliment :)
    I should say that with this project I'm trying not to take too long on it, and so some of those extra details don't make such sense to include. As you say you're not meant to see them while racing. I am still trying to make it visually appealing while driving, and there should be some good or decent details to fill out screenshots or videos for people who like that sort of thing.
    I think as PC games are getting better and better, people's expectations are getting higher and higher. I'm sure for smaller game studios that makes it harder to meet expectations, and for modders it's definitely not easier.

    So, this is some expectation management :)
    But less detail should help some people to run a full 55-car grid, because that's what it's all about (it's true that there were only 54 starters in 1967).
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  18. KernigWRC

    KernigWRC Registered

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    I support your view, in my opinion Virtua_LM has shown how to make nice looking tracks with low detail compared to ISI tracks.
    I think the key is to just make a few key elements instead of every little thing but make those good looking with good materials/colour balance/lighting.
    I absolutely LOVE sebring
     
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  19. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    I'd like to see how the grass will/can be tackled. Trackside detail of older events varied from location to location and added to the atmosphere of the event.
     
  20. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    yes, it will be a challenge
     

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