Latest update

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by whitmore, Jun 22, 2017.

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  1. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    There should be an upgrade in the tuning-page of the F2 selectionscreen (if I read that correct from the release notes) to change the caster settings. Set a higher caster in the f2 setup then to get back the center spring effect.
     
  2. Christopher Elliott

    Christopher Elliott Administrator Staff Member

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    The high caster should be the default.
     
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  3. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Certain cars feel whacky with my ffb wheel (bodnar V2 )

    If something feels out I make a quick adjustment to ffb , if still feels out that's it ....delete/unsubscribe the component/car
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  4. Eddy

    Eddy Member

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    Guys this car has a very low caster by design, this gives a different feeling then most of us simracers like. Hence that is why gave us the high caster option which isn't right in relation to the rl data but s397 decided to give us the option which is good imho. If you still don't like it that is a shame but what should they do? Make a car that is named f2 but isn't realistic?
     
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  5. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    imo the f2 ffb is up there with the USF, DW12 and the Gts nice feeling... Obviously real world forces dont work so well on the cheaper wheels, and its nice to see S397 listen and add caster to make it feel "realistic" to us.
     
  6. Slamfunk3

    Slamfunk3 Registered

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    This car is a little gem in my humble opinion. Being a ground effect car however means it's setup quite differently then most small open wheelers. It's really important to maintain optimum ride hide (wish we had access to a little more chassis info), which means you're always making a sacrifice between high and low speed handling. I have found that lowering or even disengaging the front ARB gives more feel at lower speeds. Also the car gives different clues in its FFB, have to get used to it and retrain your brain a bit.
    However by far the biggest difference with this car, just like in the first version, are the tires. They really reward you for slowly and evenly getting them up to temp. It might take as much as 10 laps before they settle in and the feeling from the FFB changes dramatically. Going from a loose low feeling to almost becoming too much.
    TK
     
  7. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Having to increase caster in order to get a more realistic FFB would mean that FFB is not properly calculated. On the other hand it is unclear which is the right FFB unless telemetry data are used.

    I have found some papers of university students using rFactor 1 doing this job with telemetry data. None of the people around here speaking about FFB has ever provided any relevant data.

    Measuring and comparing is the only effective way of improving things.
     
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  8. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    I don't believe no one here complained about the altered 6º of caster upgrade to it, nor anyone wants to not drive the car. We have reported issues with FFB that have come up as of late with recent updates. Why? Because we want to drive. Don't misinterpret comments.
     
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  9. whitmore

    whitmore Registered

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    Thanks Guimengo nicely said.
     
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  10. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    The game should provide the correct calculated ffb,ushers shouldn't have to do anymore than to make sure they aren't clipping in the hardest of turns
     
  11. blakboks

    blakboks Registered

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    @whitmore Forgive the seemingly stupid question, but I haven't seen it mentioned here yet: you're using the 2.01 version of the Formula 2? I keep seeing mention of the 1.07 version of the track, but nothing about the car.
     
  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Who says it's more realistic? The tuning options say quite the opposite; 2.5° caster is realistic, and should probably be used with powerful wheels. The default higher caster is to produce more force on normal consumer wheels.

    And that's why, @patchedupdemon , they can't just 'make it right' for everyone. Unless we all use the same controllers, which we're not.
     
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  13. whitmore

    whitmore Registered

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    Yes blakboks latest version
    F2.JPG
     
  14. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Iracing do it,they even have an auto feature which becomes available after running 1.5 laps,you activate it and it sets your ffb levels,min force and max strength for you,and saves it per car per controller
     
  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    You could do 1000 different things automatically, doesn't make it correct. Anyway, any time you're simulating varying amounts levels of steering column force on a single, and usually lower-force, wheel, you have to make a decision on how you're going to approach it and almost certainly different people will like your approach more or less based on their own preferences.

    Take a look around here at FFB discussions - if there are so many different opinions on how it could be better (along with some who like it just the way it is), would everyone really be happy with a single automatic process that makes your wheel-x behave exactly the same way as someone else's wheel-x? iRacing marketing works well, and I know a fair proportion of people who have invested a lot of money into playing it are happy to think it's the bees knees, but portraying a car producing up to 18Nm of steering torque on consumer wheels doing 2.5 - 7Nm has to introduce some compromises - automatic or not.
     
  16. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I was not talking about realistic caster but realistic FFB. Caster is for sure much easier to determine. I disagree on controller's difference to be the cause for anything.

    The problem is that FFB is not treated as another physical parameter to be correlated and validated. Trying to fine tune something without data is simply ridiculous. Those pretending to do it by feeling are more than likely to fail considering they probably never drove the car they pretend to fine tune.
     
  17. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Although I quite agree with your last paragraph Spaskis, don't forget this is a two way street. People complaining about a car like the F2 and claiming it isn't realistic, are equally prone to failure to back up their claims because of this exact same reason you mentioned.
     
  18. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    In this case I agree 100%. The necessity of downscaling FFB as calculated is the biggest issue.
    IMO the mix of linear and non linear scaling is the best compromise. An automatic calibration based on a driven lap sounds not bad at all. IMO the important thing is that in the situations close to losing grip the FFB variation can be perceived. The highest output vs input variation should be reserved for that torque range (if possible). Sensitivity seems to be a one direction adjustment where you can only flat out either the beginning or the end of the working range. IMO sensitivity should act independently at both range limits in order to reach a sinusoidal type transformation pattern.
    sketch-1498291377916.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  19. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    It sets it per wheel,it's calculated and accurate,if people don't like it they can still adjust it,it doesn't how ever mess with the wheels firmware setting,only in game.
    Then you have a linear and non linear in game ffb setting,with all these settings and being calculated and correct for the car and ffb wheels max torque,there's no better way to do it.
    Fact is some car in rf2 have wonky ffb,and no matter how much you play with the ffb setting of your wheel,it won't make it feel better,there's no reason a cars steering wheel will pull to the apex when accelerating,no matter the diff type.
    Front wheel drive cars in rf2 feel completely opposite regarding ffb to any other sim I've played,it's not a wheel or ffb setting,it's the code of that car
     
  20. AltPiga

    AltPiga Registered

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    Are you implying by the highlighted text that this would make it more realistic? Since, it's not that simple in an actual car. It has much more to do with the loads on the car, a long with the design of the suspension and steering geometries, the type of road, the conditions of that road, the slopes, cambers, the type of tires, the condition of the tires, etc, etc, etc to infinity.

    Saying the FFB should do some particular thing when the car loses traction is very 'video-gamey' if you ask me.
     
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