[REL] Latest Update: Nissan GT500 2013 v1.2 Now Available!!!

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. stonec

    stonec Member

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    If realism were as simple as obtaining correct numbers from engineers, we would have hundreds of sims on the PC market. I never doubted that the car doesn't have the correct numbers, those inertia numbers are quite easy to even calculate yourself approximately right from the car model. It is how they are applied in the sim physics engine and how they compare e.g. with lateral grip from tires that makes the difference in feeling. In AC all cars feel heavy, in pMotor sims most cars feels light (except in AMS, which is somewhere in middle). This is because of differences in underlying physics engine, since I believe all those sims use correct inertia numbers for their cars.
     
  2. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Well no because you'd need the talent to put it into software, so you wouldn't have hundreds of sims at all, you'd have the number we have now :) Not forgetting that no current PC Sim is 1:1, they are all advancing and constantly evolving, if it were as simple as entering numbers and that was it then Geoff Crammond would've created the only ever Sim :p
     
  3. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    One reason I think so many people are continuing to add opinion/input is that this category has long been requested. I think the users(we) are hoping the car becomes the base of an entire GT500 mod/package. So getting the first car 'right' will ensure others down the line are also acceptable.
     
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  4. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    Inertia values easy to obtain using model data? Possibly if you've solid modeled or if your shape is basic AND materials are uniform in density. Otherwise crap in =crap out. Most engineers sign NDAs, they value their jobs and give nothing.
     
  5. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    ...........talent to put it into software :)
    must be the reason why only a few guitar amplifier simulators are good enough to give me the feel of a real guitar amplifier.
    ok we need more talented software developers :)

    RF2 rules spread the love :)
     
  6. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    Does someone here know what the inertia problem in rfactor was about, and whether or not it is fixed in rf2?

    All i found about it so far was this comment on Niels video:
    "it was just a thing relative to the unsprung mass inertia. Simply in rFactor they plugged in a wrong formula, which you had to compensate for to have realistic physics. As Niels said, if you knew it you could compensate it: this means you had to input different inertias in the HDV file to have the inertia you actually wanted to have in game"

    I'm not sure if this is related to the same subject, but from rf2 build notes i found this:
    "Optional new HDV [SUSPENSION] line ModelWheelsIncludeAllTireMass=1 improves accounting for tire mass and inertia."
     
  7. Marcel Offermans

    Marcel Offermans Administrator Staff Member

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    Just to confirm the "inertia problem" was fixed in rFactor 2 before it was even released. That bug had only remained in the rFactor 1 codebase (and later got fixed in Automobilista).
     
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  8. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    OK. Thanks for the answer.
     
  9. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    It's good to read peoples opinions on this car not just because it's this car, but also because it reflects on what we've seen previous to what we going to see in the future.

    In a car mod there's three main things that make it up. Sounds, Graphics and Physics.
    A lot of focus here of late has been on the Physics. Maybe to much so. Don't take that the wrong way but like many have said already, this all depends on your rig, your hardware, your driving style. You'll never get 100% of people to like anything, that's a given.

    The sounds are more on the top of what we should be talking about. Some are only getting one side of speakers working now. Others are saying their not getting a base frequency. To high or to much treble from anything over a time period can not only be annoying but also harmful specially with headphones. Many of us do use headphones. Racing online or at LAN's having good working left and right sounds can make or brake a mod if you can't tell, hear were the opponent is when their along side you.

    Graphics. We are constantly hearing/reading how ugly rF2 is. So with this in mind when you do mods for it we really need to concentrate on the way they look. This starts from the clay model. The model from the 3D guy's is fine, great, but from there it's a ugly mess. Bad mapping, Badly made AO, Badly laid out AO templates.
    A badly made AO for the body specially make the car look dirty and dark. Badly laid out templates can and has in this cars case ( as with other ISI cars) make it hard to work with and time consuming to line up your liveries. In so many cases from ISI cars the painters don't spend that time so they short cut it. Don't do liveries or change it so they don't cross part lines. It all goes towards making rF2 looking better then it does. Because it can, and dose on a few mods and tracks.

    Chrome affect is achievable in rF2. In fact it's amazing how well it works! Environment refection off the side or chrome areas on a car looks fantastic in rF2. You see the road, curves, building, sky, every thing moving over the car as it goes around. This car and it's teams liveries have chrome areas in them. Not this car though. The shader used is simple called car paint with damage + extra layer. The damage thing isn't really working in rF2 anyway. The extra layer is T2, but never mind that stuff. The point is we can do a better job to help make rF2 look better then it does now just by working smarter when building mods.

    I don't work with tracks so I don't see what goes into them but if the car mods are any indication, you'd have to assume there could be things done that would help improve the look of those also.

    If your sitting there at home thinking DX11 will magically fix all the ugliness and it will suddenly look amazing, your setting yourself up for disappointment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
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  10. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    Inertia is actually a very tiny part of a very big equation. IMO a not very relevant value if an error of less than 10% is applied. The difference between main racing platforms is for sure not in the inertia values. It is the complete model they use and the approach to perform the realtime simulation what makes the difference.
     
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  11. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    You seem to think everything is so bad... and you say we can do better? I look forward to your mods that do it properly as you seem to know what is wrong and the right way to do things.
     
  12. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    Personally think your list needs reversing Painter or altering but that's just me. Sound at 2 for me after physics. Graphics l don't really give rats arz
     
  13. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    This is a usual thing that people said when you don't really have a valid argument.

    I really don't have to do anything to prove it "can" be done better because it's already out there. All you need do is look.
    Far better mapped, Better laid out template, better liveries, Then this Studio 397 Nissan GT500 and a lot of the ISI cars. Though this GT500 car was probably done along time ago by ISI but why wouldn't Studio 397 take a good look at that and clean it up?
     
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  14. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    URD are going to release the 2016 car + Lexus and Honda...and looks awesome...
    Please, can we have the 2013 Honda and Lexus licensed too?
     
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  15. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    Ok so reverse it.
    You say the physics are wrong, at fault, corrected?
    Well let's look at it like this. The physics argument here is around 70, 30 on the side that the physics being good.
    On the other side a far larger percentage are saying the sounds are wrong.

    I see it that if the sounds aren't working right as their clearly not by the amount of comments here on the subject wouldn't that affect the drivers perspective of the overall cars feel, Inertia if you like. So what your experiencing as bad physics may not be quite true. The sounds are off so giving you the wrong sense off the cars behavior.

    Are you so sure I've got it the wrong way around?

    Your comment on the graphics is quite a pathetic one. It's not like We haven't see this before and although you and your cohorts think that it's being tough and I don't care how it looks crap many do care.
    So many of the first time users of rF2 post to ask questions about things and on average more ask why is it so ugly? So many old time users are off racing Assetto Corsa because of it. Others want even try rF2 because of it.

    So you keep telling yourself you don't care so when rFactor 2 is dead and berried because people do care about the way it looks I'm sure you'll be the first to say "I don't care".
     
  16. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead Staff Member

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    Ok D.Painter, time to get off that soapbox for a bit and have a rest. I think everyone over here now knows exactly what you had to say. They may agree, they may disagree. They may care more or less than you about something (a simracer may care less than an artist, about AO maps and Skins, and viceversa). Guess that is like a discussion works. It's all good.... :)

    In general, insulting other members, devs and other artists, isn't making you any better, but sure you already know that. :)

    Now time to move on. No need for more replies about that.

    Take this as a warning.
     
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  17. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    I agree with D.Painter graphics almost killed RF2, cars don't have to look crap in 2017.
    Remember the pathetic liveries of the otherwise splendid BT20 (less the two official liveries), or the liveries of the ISI C6R GT2 included teams?
    Load F1RFT2013, URD T5, EGT, or ASR cars, and see how a cockpit can look.
    I have nothing to objet to the Nissan GT500 physics (on the contrary, tires work much better than any previous car but USF 2000), but due to the sounds I have all but the impression of driving a beast (compare with the sounds of URD T5 for instance), and immersion is totally lost. Cockpit view is not at the level of other cars already released by other modders.

    I was expecting much more from S-397 for their first release of a car, even if I understand that they have other priorities. I wouldn't have released the Nissan in it's actual state (rev 2).

    It is a pity, actually with the right mod, on the right track, the sim is simply outstanding.

    Cheers.
     
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  18. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    No need to take an aggressive tone , my comments are my personal wants for all cars not just th 500, l repeat 'l' like cars that feel good to drive , quite simple lm not interested in replays or screen shots ..
     
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  19. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    I wasn't meant to be, seam aggressive. That wasn't my intent. I'm sorry if that's how it reads. It was to point.
    I agree it's not about replays and screenshot. That's not what I'm making my point about either.

    The point is the sim itself is capable off a far better look then we're seeing here. There's a list of mods above and a few more that aren't in this list that do show the true worth of rF2. It's the look of it that people shy away from. So why not at least try to equal the standards that are achievable and evident in the third party mods?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
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  20. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I'm quite baffled at why a simple update to a single car can generate 5 pages of comments. I don't think developers stated it was the most amazing update ever or that it was the last update for that car. The only thing that matter is : is that effectively an improvement over the previous version or not? If the answer is no, then ok, I can understand , if otherwise the answer is yes, then I really don't understand. It's a free car, updated for free, and probably will be updated further in the future.
     

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