Latest Roadmap Update - September 2017

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, Sep 26, 2017.

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  1. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    My experience in software development and management seems alas to contradict yours.

    We had a weekly reporting of project progress to customers, in case of serious problems we had to report at least twice by hour (24x7 all days of the year).

    Clients didn't share our point of view at all when we were late (by the fact we could never tell a client a week before due date that the project was one month or two late for instance) - bi polar would be a very kind description of a client when a boatload of money was involved-, and your job was seriously at risk, as many experienced.

    Cheers.
     
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  2. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    What money are we talking about?
     
  3. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

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    If you are going to directly deal with your customers which can be as many as hundreds or thousands of people then the negativety is going to be the only thing that you will remember. Even if it is 99% praise or constructive criticism it is still the 1% which is personal attacks and negativity for the sake of negativity. And that 1% is what will effect you the most in the long run and nobody is invulnerable to it.

    I don't think it is good for developers to interact with their userbase directly. It is just unmanageable when some of the worst trolls get the same voice as the people who post well grounded opinions. And if you look at ac or pcars you quickly notice the developers are not above this behaviour either and sometimes start their own fires. I don't know if dave kaemmer reads the iracing forums at all but for sure it is better to stay motivated if you limit it or even avoid it and have the information come to you be filtered so you don't need to bother with the bad at all. And it is not easy to stay neutral either. If it is your code, your modelling, your textures, your information and your physics code and interfaces and you will feel it being part of you and criticism (even if valid) can cut deep because it truly is never ending 24/7.

    I think the connection with your userbase is important but it can also become unmanageable as hell especially if things don't go as you planned, if there is miscommunication or missed deadlines or change of plans. And rf2 is not in good place. Transitions are difficult for everybody I'd imagine. A lot of popular youtubers share this same problem and some of them have cut their ties completely with their audiences. I think totalbiscuit is a good example of this. When you have 2 million subscribers it is a lot of constant noise and even if it it is 99% good that 1% is still 20k worthless voices that is just very bad for your mental health to read while at the same time trying to work hard for those same people.

    One solution is to have a person who deals with the community. Who reads the good, kicks out the bad and makes sure things don't get misunderstood when information goes from one place to another. And makes sure it does. That person deals with bug reports, forum moderation and in best scenario the devs know what the users think while the users also know what the devs want. It is not easy position to fill but even as someone who tries very hard to post constructively I'm sure as hell as a dev I would not want to read my own posts because mainly what I do I report issues. Reading that 24/7 and not seeing all the stuff I don't post about because it is working or to my liking can skew things to make it look like nothing is ever good enough. Because in the end nothing is good enough because your users have wildly different goals for the software as the developers. It is very brave for marcel to read these forums as often I think he does because there is a lot of things I'd wish he knew about but also so much I'd wish he rather not see directly because it can be so raw and demoralising even if it comes with best intentions. And sometimes it doesn't. But then again it can be equally frustrating to read about how some people have all the solutions to your problems :).
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
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  4. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    @Comante: your description of customers for software development is exactly my experience of them. People are people; they don't suddenly change just because they are employed by a corporation. Many a time I have seen bipolar customers who spend all of their time getting upset at the software product, and services, and only too willing to dump as much as possible because their goal is to get free software and services; it pays them to highlight problems in order to negotiate for this, its a common tactic. Plus, they've often made commitments to their senior management that they shouldn't have and so are looking to offload the blame.

    As regards S397, unfortunately the 'voice of the customer' is one they need to hear, and it will be very hard for them to identify a set of priorities and stick to them when there are 10,000 voices all saying something different. You can't be all things to all men. So it's better then if they tell us what their priorities are, and then we can make decisions. There is probably no industry quite like computer gaming where extravagant claims are made for some future product, which end up being far from what is delivered; massively inflated expectations and then release for cost/revenue reasons something that doesn't match up. Many customers are now very attuned to look for this and call BS loud and early. To create the "good guy developer" persona, you need to make careful commitments and then deliver on those commitments - because that's what separates you from all the others, and especially those with publishers in the middle who have their own pressures (Wall St and suchlike). Since S397 self-publishes, they avoid many of those issues. Also, S397 doesn't have the pressures of doing console releases. If you look at the issues faced by AC/505 and SMS/Bandai, you see where the additional problems come from. Their predecessors ISI had many issues with delivering; there's some concern this pattern is beginning to repeat itself.

    Facts are, there are two main audiences; those who primarily want offline experiences - content, driving and AI races, hotlapping (with possible small online time attack tracking) and maybe career modes and suchlike; and those who want online experiences, with either ad-hoc competition or more managed competitions either by the community or directly by the publisher/dev. There's overlap to some extent, but otherwise, they are very different challenges and need very different skills. rF2 has come very much from a 'homebrew' position on each of these (mods for content, user-run servers) and for many this is attractive due to the flexibility and variety it allows. But that flexibility and variety has significant drawbacks, which have been acknowledged. S397 face a highly entrenched competitor (iRacing) and several others who are embryonic; plus they lack features/content etc. on the offline side as well. It's a massive hill to climb in any direction. The roadmap should tell us which hill they intend to climb first, and what the plan is to do so. But they also need some feedback from customers to determine whether that plan is to be supported, and sadly, this forum and social media are the way to get it with all the dirt and nastiness and negativity that entails; they have to find the nuggets of good advice in all that. Flame suit on, then wade in, antisocial filters in place. Responding to individual forum posts is probably not going to work, unless they are seeking clarification on points raised. Input, not output.
     
  5. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    This all reminds me of my thoughts during a time when my Mother-in-law was so upset about some things that her grand-children were posting on FB, . . . TMI. Just back away from the Internet; it's a marvelous and terrible thing. :confused::p:)
     
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  6. Narrowbackwing

    Narrowbackwing Registered

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    I remember reading this a few years ago , I even save it just as a reminder :) the saying at the end is sweet .

    "What were the devs thinking?!" Many were the times I yelled that phrase at my screen when playing a game I didn't like. Why is that level so crap? Why is that plot point so underdeveloped? Why is that ending so abrupt? Maybe, I thought, the developers are just dumb. How could they have not seen these problems coming?

    As it turns out? They quite possibly did. Game devs are not a bunch of oblivious monkeys who smash their keyboards with crosseyed indifference—they often know what works and what doesn't, and why. When particular aspects of a game end up being less than stellar, it's likely not because the developers are dumb, it's because time and money constraints forced them to make tough choices.19202122

    As a for-instance: why are most video game endings kind of disappointing? Is it because the developers are stupid and don't know how to bring closure? Or is it because, on average, only a small percentage of the people who buy your game will see its ending and every moment you spend polishing it is one you haven't spent on other parts of the game? Parts that a way bigger chunk of your players will actually interact with?23

    If you had to choose, which would you rather put time into: the beginning of the game, which will hopefully ease players into your world and make them interested enough to continue playing and see all the cool stuff you have in store for them? Or the ending?2425262728...30

    ....

    ...

    ..

    As a game developper, thank you.Thank you so much for this. And to quote the great Sid Meier :

    'Playing games is a series of interesting decisions, but making games is a series of heartbreaking disappointments'

    http://kotaku.com/five-things-i-didn-t-get-about-making-video-games-unti-1687510871
     
  7. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    Now they only show wet track video, not raining. Still a dream...
     
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  8. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    From Discord:

    RobertRonnie-Yesterday at 11:18 PM
    @Marrs Does the new upcoming build have the new UI?

    Marrs-Yesterday at 11:18 PM

    It's a simple question. The answer is no.
    We're still testing and tweaking it.
     
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  9. TheMattyOnline

    TheMattyOnline Member

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    The new UI is fundamental to everything going forward. It's not just an update of graphics, but a precursor to all the other good stuff we want in rf2.
    It doesn't surprise me that it's taking longer than anticipated.

    It has to work robustly from the get go.
     
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  10. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    It would be really a big surprise to me, when we will see the new UI, upgraded Rain and the new Matchmaker System before 2018. I was reading somewhere (cant remind where...) that the Matchmaker System will coming sometimes in 2018. I guess it will be the same for the other features. However..better well done as rushed ;-)
     
  11. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Yeah.
    But that wet track looks so good that I wet myself when I saw it.
    Damnit, I started playing games exactly 31 years ago and was chasing 3 pixels with my pixel and it's geting to the point where you have to look at the title of the Youtube video to tell if it's real or sim.
     
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  12. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    After the GT3 update.
    October Roadmap?

    Really interested to hear about UI and new rain effects now that the GT3 pack has rain tires.
     
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  13. F1 2004

    F1 2004 Registered

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    October Roadmap in November? lol
     
  14. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Hiya

    Has there been an Oct roadmap?
    Sorry I’ve been side tracked a lot lately
     
  15. Magus

    Magus Registered

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    No, not as yet. Maybe we well get a joint Oct/Nov Roadmap in the coming week with a possible release [date] on the new UI & rain effect.
     
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  16. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Hi @S397. (@Marcel Offermans)

    Thank you for your great work (I also strongly greet ISI).

    If you read my posts, you will know that I am extremely grateful for your work on the FFB / physics and the superior quality of your cars.

    I know it will not help things, but like many other users I am "eager" to read the october roadmap.
    Well it's great I pass for a fanboy! :)

    Will there be a roadmap in the coming days?

    Thank you a lot
     
  17. Bruce0440

    Bruce0440 Registered

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    well, if things go according to plan you can expect a new track before christmas.

    Marcel said that in Discord. What track do you think Will be?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  18. thmxvr

    thmxvr Registered

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    Hopefully lazer scan Mont-Tremblant, or Spa-Francorchamps 80's layout, or Sonoma, or the Glen or whatever as long as it is something cool and not a boring track like modern F1 and FE tracks.
     
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  19. F1 2004

    F1 2004 Registered

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    Austin is not boring. :p I think it will be a GT3 track.
     
  20. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Lol :) :)

    Surely not the nordschleife unfortunately, even if it is the most strategic track on a sim and even any blockbuster games / arcade-sim / sim have it since years AND IN LASER SCANNED MOD of course....
     
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