Latest Roadmap Update -October 2017

[juanchioooo]

for my road reflexion = off
shadows = low is very good, the high shadows look really bad!!!

low is not off, low is low, also the shadows are not espcially good, although little by little it is improving rfactor

@stonec Did you see that the system with pcie 2.0 does work with 20 vehicles? I put 25 cars ,Did you clarify?

 

[Mulero]

Environment turned OFF = there are fake reflections which the way it is done gives the impression BY DRIVING REALLY (not having fun watching the small details ) that the reflections are in high (by driving one hardly realizes the difference).

For third time ... NO.

Environment reflection OFF, does not use a fake image or a static image, it uses a real-time reflection that is updated every 20 seconds instead of several times per second.

 

[dadaboomda]

For third time ... NO.

Environment reflection OFF, does not use a fake image or a static image, it uses a real-time reflection that is updated every 20 seconds instead of several times per second.

- don't agree. But me and you absolutely don't care about what are we are thinking about this, doesn't matter.
- you seems a little "angry"
- did you understand that all the messages that were intended for you had absolutely only one goal: to help you to improve your settings if you wished it?

Moreover I am not sure that each of our explanations about the reflections is sufficiently well formulated and detailed: because I know very well what I see in terms of fluidity, actualization reflections, really real reflections or not VS the environment (OFF vs low and high), etc.

No need to talk about it again, I just wanted to tell you that my messages were just to help you, not to make you angry !

 

[dadaboomda]

for my road reflexion = off
shadows = low is very good, the high shadows look really bad!!!

low is not off, low is low, also the shadows are not espcially good, although little by little it is improving rfactor

@stonec Did you see that the system with pcie 2.0 does work with 20 vehicles? I put 25 cars ,Did you clarify?

Only if you have a 1080 or 1080 ti or good SLI :
Force "sparse grid supersampling" x2 or 4 = no more aliasing on shadows but HUGE lost of FPS

 

[juanchioooo]

Only if you have a 1080 or 1080 ti or good SLI :
Force "sparse grid supersampling" x2 or 4 = no more aliasing on shadows but HUGE lost of FPS

gtx 1060 fullHD for me it is perfect , in my case, There is no loss of fps , it is stable ,and as I want it, I'm not going to Nordschleife to run against the 20 AI

little by little it will be improving rfactor

 

[Mulero]

- don't agree. But me and you absolutely don't care about what are we are thinking about this, doesn't matter.
- you seems a little "angry"

I am not angry, but it is a bit annoying that one bothers to check things and even tell them that it is not right. The next time you want to contradict someone, at least make sure that what you say is correct and if you are not sure, at least bother to check it first.

 

[Lazza]

@dadaboomda you're making a good point (environment reflections on low have a low refresh rate, which looks bad, yet are more demanding than Off which looks smooth), but @Mulero is right: environment reflections 'Off' are real environment reflections, but only updated every 20 seconds. They are static the rest of the time, and wrong if your car is moving, but not a fake static map (as rF1).

 

[whitmore]

Still no mention of the ridiculasly long name connectors above the cars being looked at.

 

[dadaboomda]

@dadaboomda you're making a good point (environment reflections on low have a low refresh rate, which looks bad, yet are more demanding than Off which looks smooth), but @Mulero wrong if your car is moving, but not a fake static map (as rF1).

That is exactly what I wanted to say, for me it meant "fake". So you 're ok

 

[hitm4k3r]

Still no mention of the ridiculasly long name connectors above the cars being looked at.

Propably because it is such an important problem, that they have to stop to work on less important stuff like overall performance improvements and the UI. Seriously ... Such statements and the discussion on RD make me wonder what's wrong with the simracers these days even if it is written infront of their face. It hurts my brain.

Simply hit the tab key and your problem is solved for now. With the new HUD system, that was mentioned in this very roadmap (in case you read it), I suspect that this will be fixed/changed anyway

 

[dadaboomda]

gtx 1060 fullHD for me it is perfect , in my case, There is no loss of fps , it is stable ,and as I want it, I'm not going to Nordschleife to run against the 20 AI

little by little it will be improving rfactor

Hi,

I give you this advice because I understand that you put shadows on low ? If you put shadows on Ultra + ultra settings there is a huge aliasing on a ~132cm screen with full hd : it is for this setting that what I propose can be a solution. With shadows on low there few aliasing on shadows so it isn't necessary.

 

[dadaboomda]

I am not angry, but it is a bit annoying that one bothers to check things and even tell them that it is not right. The next time you want to contradict someone, at least make sure that what you say is correct and if you are not sure, at least bother to check it first.

I totally agree, before contradict someone, that 's better to be sure of what you say

But it was not the problem : we describe the same setting DIFFERENTLY and I use the term "FAKE" with wrong context.

Plus, sometimes it is difficult to make good choices in terms of expression and words because english is not my native language.

For me only that is important :

- environment reflections is one of the worst thing for performance AND don't bring huge immersion. So lower or deactivate this setting is very strategic for medium GPU.
- high setting = good graphics + relatively big lost of FPS, especially for the nordschleife or on tracks with a lot of trees/objects which can be reflecting -----> high end GPU is preferable.
- low setting : not a good compromise between quality / performance ---> performance is not very bad + quality is correct because you drive + very low refresh rate WHICH GIVE THE VIRTUAL IMPRESSION OF BAD SMOOTH even if you have 60 FPS stable. So for me very bad compromise (choose OFF or HIGH settings)
- OFF setting : HUGE GAIN OF FPS + fake ******"IMPRESSION"******* (I don't say fake but impression of fake/not real reflections according to what there is on the environment ) + perfect SMOOTH (the most important I think) + relatively good quality of reflections.

IMPORTANT IS IN DRIVING YOU DON'T REALLY SEE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIGH SETTING AN OFF. BUT BETWEEN HIGH SETTING AND LOW SETTING THERE IS A STRONG DIFFERENCE DUE TO THE BAD SMOOTH.

Hope it can help some guys

 

[WiZPER]

For third time ... NO.

Environment reflection OFF, does not use a fake image or a static image, it uses a real-time reflection that is updated every 20 seconds instead of several times per second.

Hmm, I'll have to back down on that one - I have no idea when or why they changed that, it does look terrible! I was expecting it to still use only the baked emap-texture combined with a simple sky-environment 'static cube mapper', as it used to.

Guess they should change settings-options to low/medium/high then.

 

[Tnadz]

Great Roadmap update. You guys are doing such excellent work with revamping a sim with so much potential. While you covered a lot, there were some very important things that were mentioned in brief or not at all that are, imho, fairly detrimental for various reasons.
1) No mention of rain effects or glass shader progress. Not critical but those gorgeous demos got a lot of people excited.
2) No mention of, or examples of, visual damage. A community debate as necessary or not, it has affected server code and adds more visual elements to the sim. Status? Concept pics?
3) Pay for 3rd party mods. I can only imagine this infrastructure needs to be fleshed out. I'm split on opinion. I believe many modders do some fabulous work and absolutely deserve monetary credit for the effort as S397 does for the new DLC they produce (it helps keep the sim going). However, the volatility of a new market could potentially hurt the platform. The community has known rF2 as a sim to find content galore without barrier to entry (past the initial purchase).

While markets can regulate themselves, if modded content is locked behind a paywall that some aren't willing to climb, could that prevent rF2 from effectively competing with other sims? Will the newly released and evolving features be enough to encourage racers to pay more? Is S397 taking any kind of fee for each transaction or does it all go to the creators? How do multi-team projects pay out to the team members? Returns? Is it likely overblown speculation and only a few very decent mods (Rieza level) will actually end up charging?

As I said, you guys have done so much incredible work so far. I always find myself getting anxious towards the end of the month for a new road map to see what's new. You've made me anxious for a sim every month and I love it.

 

[juanchioooo]

Hi,

I give you this advice because I understand that you put shadows on low ? If you put shadows on Ultra + ultra settings there is a huge aliasing on a ~132cm screen with full hd : it is for this setting that what I propose can be a solution. With shadows on low there few aliasing on shadows so it isn't necessary.

antialiasing does not affect the stripes of the circuit? my screen is 65 cm

 

[Kevin Ryan]

I find Michael's comments on the tire model odd. He talks like he's fine tuning a near perfect model, slightly adjusting the length of the contact patch at high speed for more accurate results. A bit academic.

For years there's been glaring practical issues with the tire model. Most obvious is that the tire pressures always work best at minimum. It's true of the GT3 pack too. Typical real life cold pressures are 1.75 bar but here we run at 1.4 bar and that's only because we can't put them any lower. This softens the car, gives unrealistic grip and badly skews temperatures across the tire. To say it's giving realistic results is laughable.

I had actually thought development of the tire model had been finished by ISI years ago. To find out that it's actually ongoing and that no one has even thought to address such a huge issue with it is disturbing...

 

[davehenrie]

Even an approximate answer or not very detailed answer woult be great !

And then, if the schedule slip like it did for the GT3 PowerPak, all we would read here would be incessant complaining such as S397 has never done anything right, or anything at all .... Ad Nauseam.

 

[stonec]

I had actually thought development of the tire model had been finished by ISI years ago. To find out that it's actually ongoing and that no one has even thought to address such a huge issue with it is disturbing...

Then you didn't understand Michael's point at all. It's not about any "huge issue" that was purposefully left open, it's just that they learned more with more new data they got. Software is never "finished" btw, the tire model is never going to be 100% no matter if you have S397 or NASA developing it. I think Assetto Corsa is now on version 10 of their tire model, and iRacing I lost count.

for my road reflexion = off
shadows = low is very good, the high shadows look really bad!!!

low is not off, low is low, also the shadows are not espcially good, although little by little it is improving rfactor

@stonec Did you see that the system with pcie 2.0 does work with 20 vehicles? I put 25 cars ,Did you clarify?

Yeah, nice that you got it running so well, but I suspect it's mostly thanks to low shadows. I do most of my tests on S397 default profile settings, which is "high". I have yet to find any big improvement in FPS from the new GT3 update, still doesn't quite achieve 60 FPS at start of race.

For me running low shadows is hardly an option, it basically uses rF1 "fake" static undercar shadow box instead of dynamic shadow. Many mods don't have this static shadow box at all, so they will show no undercar shadow with "low" setting, which is even worse than fake shadow. And lots of the trackside shadows go missing with low.

 

[whitmore]

Propably because it is such an important problem, that they have to stop to work on less important stuff like overall performance improvements and the UI. Seriously ... Such statements and the discussion on RD make me wonder what's wrong with the simracers these days even if it is written infront of their face. It hurts my brain.

Simply hit the tab key and your problem is solved for now. With the new HUD system, that was mentioned in this very roadmap (in case you read it), I suspect that this will be fixed/changed anyway

Your head would hurt hitting the screen looking for names after hitting the TAB key as you suggest

 

[dadaboomda]

antialiasing does not affect the stripes of the circuit? my screen is 65 cm

This PARTUCLARLY type of AA affects shadows (I don't know exactly why).

Set this setting correctling requires to interest yourself of this AA technique (go to the web). For example this is very important to put also a specific level of MSAA :
from the web ----> "You also are going to have to set the LOD bias so there is no blurring. You must change the LOD bias setting from clamp to allow. This is a general guideline on LOD bias settings.

2x MSAA + 2x SGSSAA: -0.500
4x MSAA + 4x SGSSAA: -1.000
8x MSAA + 8x SGSSAA: -1.500"

But juanchioooo, If you don't have have a very high end GPU, I really don't suggest you to try.

BETTER TRY :
I don't try this kind of tests but 4K (4K NVIDIA DSR) can I think improve a lot the aliasing of shadows (note test = not sure) : is it always better for aliasing and overall quality to increase the resolution, for me it is a better method than sparse grid supersampling (because of OVERALL QUALITY) which with full hd give you a very very strong AA (even for transparacy textures).