Latest Roadmap Update -October 2017

[dadaboomda]

This is the big factor that you are overlooking. People are mostly looking for racing other people or AI and in that regard DX9 just works much better on most systems without having to sacrifice stuff like shadows, wich are frankly speaking a minimum and essential in a dynamic racing world. I for one hope that they really keep improving the DX11 Beta until the framerates are equal and until the game is equaly fluid - wich was the ultimate goal and hopefully still is. I have terrible slowdowns right now with the CPU running out of realtime in DX11 no matter how low I turn the graphic settings, even with the updated GT3 cars, as soon as there are opponents on screen. As long as I am driving alone I can crank everything up to high settings with very high AA and even PP at ultra. But looking into the future this is not my goal. I really would like to have a fluid experience as I have it in DX9 and there is nothing that should have a higher priority right now, because the performance situation with multiple cars is just not acceptable. And I am definitely not the only one noticing this so there needs to happen alot more to the core engine.

Other than that I have to say, that the performance improvements of the cars are def. noticable, but there is still something not quite right in how DX11 stresses the CPU and how it causes spikes. rF2 was GPU demanding in the past and handled the CPU side of things quite well, so it would be nice to get into that comfy zone again. People having to turn down graphics to low with a 1080 is a bit too much to ask for.

- I am offline user and I play with AI only 1% of the time ok, using rf2 only for train.
- I used AI recently 6 AI only. 100% visible cars. 63km. with my settings. Results: - 100% smooth (not 99.999%) - no stuttering - beatifull graphics. I am not a gamer, but recently I see on a big screen the PS4 game The Most Graphically beautifull (I think it is horizon something) : for me my rf2 graphics are Strongly better, aim with less effects (No PP, the nordschleife grass dont move etc ....). But in PS4 thats a reference, so ... AND TO ANSWER YOU: I absolutely do not be hurt by the absence of shadows and EVEN LESS by the shadows of cars ..... I did not even ask myself the question is to say how it has not "hurt" me .......

Something that will help you necessarily by relieving your CPU is very efficient:
--->>> puts the algorithm of the "real" time acceleration on X1 or OFF
-----> to Overcklock only 15% my CPU was also very efficient
------> Very important: it is necessary to avoid throtteling (CPU and GPU): open up your tower and increase the GPU fan and CPU fan (from a certain temperature, start the increase very very quickly.

 

[dadaboomda]

the translator cheats a little, I'm sorry

He cheats allways

 

[hitm4k3r]

- I am offline user and I play with AI only 1% of the time ok, using rf2 only for train.
- I used AI recently 6 AI only. 100% visible cars. 63km. with my settings. Results: - 100% smooth (not 99.999%) - no stuttering - beatifull graphics. I am not a gamer, but recently I see on a big screen the PS4 game The Most Graphically beautifull (I think it is horizon something) : for me my rf2 graphics are Strongly better, aim with less effects (No PP, the nordschleife grass dont move etc ....). But in PS4 thats a reference, so ... AND TO ANSWER YOU: I absolutely do not be hurt by the absence of shadows and EVEN LESS by the shadows of cars ..... I did not even ask myself the question is to say how it has not "hurt" me .......

Something that will help you necessarily by relieving your CPU is very efficient:
--->>> puts the algorithm of the "real" time acceleration on X1 or OFF
-----> to Overcklock only 15% my CPU was also very efficient
------> Very important: it is necessary to avoid throtteling (CPU and GPU): open up your tower and increase the GPU fan and CPU fan (from a certain temperature, start the increase very very quickly.

Im am not demanding anything fancy. I am just demanding to be able to play the game in MP or SP at lowest settings in DX11 once it gets the default branch, wich isn't possible right now, atleast not with a smooth experience. My only option to play it smooth with other cars on track is by using DX9 and I am honestly not willed to invest into new hardware because I am forced to use DX11 at one point or another. That's not how you stick to the goal of achieving equaly good performance in DX9 and DX11 by optimizing the game. That aren't my words, but the words of the developers. And tbh, I am also not willed to switch of the shadows because I don't have to in DX9 and I am not going to open my case for DX11 either (it's in good shape btw as I allways have an eye on cooling). Moving forward doesn't mean switching off features in my book.

 

[dadaboomda]

Im am not demanding anything fancy. I am just demanding to be able to play the game in MP or SP at lowest settings in DX11 once it gets the default branch, wich isn't possible right now, atleast not with a smooth experience. My only option to play it smooth with other cars on track is by using DX9 and I am honestly not willed to invest into new hardware because I am forced to use DX11 at one point or another. That's not how you stick to the goal of achieving equaly good performance in DX9 and DX11 by optimizing the game. That aren't my words, but the words of the developers. And tbh, I am also not willed to switch of the shadows because I don't have to in DX9 and I am not going to open my case for DX11 either (it's in good shape btw as I allways have an eye on cooling). Moving forward doesn't mean switching off features in my book.

Clearly, with dx9 with max settings + mirrors + max AA + max settings on the GPU driver + without any GPU overclocking (but small CPU OC) works absolutely fine (but in full hd, with dx11. // I am in 4K and lower settings with perfect smooth. Graphics quality is strongly better in dx11 with my settings and perfectly smooth).

A lot of guys says always that "its false with exactly same settings / same conditions / same track / same cars, there is a HUGE FPS lost between dx9 and dx11" and "people don't make good tests and don't using exactly same settings / etc".
These people just says we make bad tests, we don't know how to make a test etc.... are we stupid ?

There is a huge FPS differences.from dx9 to dx11. Some guys says it's ~ -25%. But I think that is strongly more. (I don't have graphs and my ~50 hours of test have been make 2 month ago, so it's difficult to evaluate the % of FPS lost.

 

[Radar]

.... there are fewer people happy with rF2.

And fewer modders.

 

[stonec]

This isn't simply an issue of doing a small optimization to the GT3 cars; its an inherent issue in the game code that has existed from the beginning. About 3 years ago the DX9 engine had similar terrible frame rates to what we now get, and ISI underwent a task to optimize, and raised the fps by about 50% into useable territory. Now, its back into unusable land. PC2 has had a significant upgrade from PC1 in its handling of dynamic lighting and shadow drawing; its almost impossible to see glaring issues now except for some special cases. The degree of polish they have applied to this is huge. S397 don't have that level of polish; its v1, where SMS are on v3 and iRacing are about at the same and trying to reverse engineer dynamic lighting into what they have, which stands a fair chance of putting them back at v1 quality.

I agree with most of what you said, but PC2 still has big shadow issues, watch the ISR review for example at 13:30 minutes. I also find it hard to understand why so many modern sims struggle with shadows. iRacing has it obviously a bit easier as it's not using dynamic lighting that changes with daytime. But Assetto Corsa achieves IMO perfectly acceptable shadows, nothing fantastic, but they don't disturb me and the game runs well. Since the time when rF1 was released in 2005, we should today have roughly 10 times more GPU performance available, so shadows should be a piece of cake on modern hardware.

 

[stonec]

A lot of guys says always that "its false with exactly same settings / same conditions / same track / same cars, there is a HUGE FPS lost between dx9 and dx11" and "people don't make good tests and don't using exactly same settings / etc".
These people just says we make bad tests, we don't know how to make a test etc.... are we stupid ?

No, you are not stupid. There is a big difference between DX9 and DX11 on older Nvidia GPU's, GTX 600 and 700 series. There is a much lesser difference between DX9 and DX11 with GTX 900 or 1000 series. The difference on GTX 1000 series is 10% at most and some have even reported same FPS as with DX9. It seems to me that S397 clearly focused on optimizing DX11 for the modern Nvidia architecture, which is what a lot of other new games are doing as well.

 

[dadaboomda]

@Mulero "there are fewer people happy with rF2."

I am really not sure.

Because there is a factual improvement of rf2 with that's right, some legitime disappoinments and worries

Just some example :
- Bad comminication of S397
- The choice of priorities of S397 rf2 which absolutely each user have a different view but : perhaps some priorities are questionnable :
[*visual dammage VS physics + New UI not improving the existing UI VS physics + *promote modding car content thinking rf1 modding platform = r2 capacity to permise to have rf2 best standard quality car content VS improving the very very high quality of S397 / ISI car content + *improving only slightly the overall graphic quality VS having a respectable graphic performance to respect your user base and earn new custumers [everyone can'buy a gtx 1080 is that comprehensible ?????] + *don't finishing the work you begin + *some rare car content deception [gtr500 : sound and physics] + *make some disapointed priorities in terms of tracks [no laser scanned track while rf2 is far away the best simulation and the only I think : after 5 years, it doesn't make any sense // no nordschleife ? I can't give you in this post good arguments for the nords because there is a gigantic quantity of factual-pragmagmatic arguments I have to write AND just to say every sim / arcade sim / blockbuster game have the nords often in laser and since years : there is a strategic reason no ???. Zandvoort track not a dream track, not very known, not very popular, good layout yes but... again not laser scanned ? Not to talk again about the nords but I think SPA francorchamps is very much strategic.... strange choices.) : that is just some example I others but... that's enough.

Again when you have a small team [but that's right an exceptional physics team etc], priorities IS THE ONLY LEVER on which you can count, that's very important to understand that.

Plus, it is a huge chance for S397 to have feedback from "all" (forum users) his community.
Why ? Because 99.99999999999999% of us just want the success of S397 and rf2.

Thing is : each user think differently than other users. What we talk for thousands of hours in this forum is very important for S397.

And yes, it is very profitable to :

- Tell what is awesome (physics / FFB / car content / algorythms like realroad etc) and to say what is the more important in a sim and in rf2 (hoping that is for 2017 and 2018 the very very high priority).
- AND YES, make ***CONSTRUCTIVE*** critism which is very very usefull (and OK, not necessarily pleasant // but to have the data to make progress > to read unpleasant things).

Of course this is important that there is good arguments (good arguments for me = factual and pragmatic with that the priority on roadmap is the sim aspects/realism : if we need a game, we go to AC or PC2 that seem logical)

So tell that this kind of user is NEGATIVE PERSONS : that a very bad and negative value judgment.... and we have to be positive ? The beginning is just to respect other users which have the same passion.

EVERY USER IS DIFFERENT EVERY USER POST CAN BE VERY USEFULL FOR S397 AND THE FUTURE OF RF2.

 

[Ari Antero]

It seems to me that S397 clearly focused on optimizing DX11 for the modern Nvidia architecture, which is what a lot of other new games are doing as well.

I am not sure if we should claim S397 or any other game companies about low frames regarding older generation of Nvidia cards.
The GeForce GTX 780 Ti was launched on November 7, 2013. The GTX 980 Ti was launched on 2nd June, 2015. The GTX 1080 Ti was announced on February 28, 2017 and set to go on sale March 10, 2017
Last Sunday I benchmarked rFactor 2, 780 Ti vs 980 Ti vs 1080 Ti (single card) with I7- 4770K, Gigabyte GA-Z87X-OC and DDR3 2666mhz ram.
780 Ti, min 58 fps> Average 99 fps.
980 Ti, min 96 fps> Average 131 fps.
1080 Ti, min 116 fps> Average 187 fps.

Nvidia has about 80% of market and I agree my fellow countryman`s comment about Nvidia

 

[Marcel Offermans]

One of the big problems with rF2 has always been shadows. [...] This isn't simply an issue of doing a small optimization to the GT3 cars; its an inherent issue in the game code that has existed from the beginning. [...] There's things need fixing and changing in the base code before these can be utilized, and the roadmap didn't address this and its the biggest omission.

The second big omission is not addressing the numerous existing bugs and gotchas. And there are certain design decisions that need to be revisited that hold lots of things back re: packaging, mods, DLC etc.

You are right. Our shadow system is quite old and there have been a lot of advances in technology that we could and should apply to improve both the overall look and the performance of the shadows. While we did not explicitly mention it in the roadmap, this is definitely on our radar and quite high on the list of priorities in terms of graphics.

Regarding the second omission, I beg to disagree. We are certainly fixing bugs, and balancing that work with adding new features. Just to name a few things: You can now successfully use ALT-TAB to go out of and back into rFactor 2, which was a very long standing annoyance to many people. Our undercar shadows were not working at night and were producing various artifacts (clipping the road surface, producing dark lines on tyres). There are a lot more, and we still have a lot of bugs left, so we will keep working on those.

 

[Karei]

Regarding the second omission, I beg to disagree. We are certainly fixing bugs, and balancing that work with adding new features. Just to name a few things: You can now successfully use ALT-TAB to go out of and back into rFactor 2, which was a very long standing annoyance to many people. Our undercar shadows were not working at night and were producing various artifacts (clipping the road surface, producing dark lines on tyres). There are a lot more, and we still have a lot of bugs left, so we will keep working on those.

If you want to summarize what people are feeling but can't express, I think that it would be nice to have a proper place with easy access where you can read more detailed release notes. We don't actually know what has been fixed and what it's still a bug. It would be better for Studio 397 too.

 

[dadaboomda]

You are right. Our shadow system is quite old and there have been a lot of advances in technology that we could and should apply to improve both the overall look and the performance of the shadows. While we did not explicitly mention it in the roadmap, this is definitely on our radar and quite high on the list of priorities in terms of graphics.

That's a good news, again you seem to use the suggestions/"complain" that you see on the forum from your user base : very good.
But if I can suggest something.... if these informations were given days or weeks ago, there would have been less frustration (for people which have less than a gtx 980 / very expensive cards). That is not a critic, just a little suggestion.

Other thing, same suggestion :
"You can now successfully use ALT-TAB to go out of and back into rFactor 2, which was a very long standing annoyance to many people." : when the problem was corrected, why don't you inform quickly your user base, to decrease frustration, users can understand that there is less off or no more stuttering problems.... and most important : in saying this it is exactly as you saying "we take account your problems, we do our best etc...

Your roadmap is very very good. Strongly better than others. Again, you seem to take account about what your user base in the forum says. GOOD !!

 

[WiZPER]

environment reflection : low = almost the same result as off

Incorrect.

OFF will disable environment mapping (obviously) and instead use static cube maps.

LOW will use proper environment mapping, but at a slower update rate and resolution, than HIGH.

 

[green serpent]

Have we established roughly when these tyre updates will be implemented? And am I understanding correctly that there will be slightly more grip at speed?

 

[Will Mazeo]

I agree with most of what you said, but PC2 still has big shadow issues, watch the ISR review for example at 13:30 minutes. I also find it hard to understand why so many modern sims struggle with shadows. iRacing has it obviously a bit easier as it's not using dynamic lighting that changes with daytime. But Assetto Corsa achieves IMO perfectly acceptable shadows, nothing fantastic, but they don't disturb me and the game runs well. Since the time when rF1 was released in 2005, we should today have roughly 10 times more GPU performance available, so shadows should be a piece of cake on modern hardware.

Well, it is said PC engine started from a ISImotor license. Sad they didn't fix that yet.
Reiza said they found the reason for shadow issues but would take more time and money than they have for AMS so it will only be fixed for next game

 

[Mulero]

OFF will disable environment mapping (obviously) and instead use static cube maps.

Incorrect.

With reflections turned off it is still used (I do not know how to say it) environment mapping???, only that it uses a very low refresh rate, an update every 30 seconds or more.

 

[dadaboomda]

Have we established roughly when these tyre updates will be implemented? And am I understanding correctly that there will be slightly more grip at speed?

That is for me one of the most important information that @Marcel Offermans or @S397 can give us, really.

Because best simulation = best physics
But doesn't mean "=" for example other aspects like performance, graphics quality, cars content, tracks, UI, plugins, etc.

What I want to try to explain is that physics/FFB is very far away THE aspect which determine if a game is a real simulation according to 2017 standards or not.

Even an approximate answer or not very detailed answer woult be great !

 

[WiZPER]

Incorrect.

With reflections turned off it is still used (I do not know how to say it) environment mapping???, only that it uses a very low refresh rate, an update every 30 seconds or more.

Those reflections are from statics, as I said (for cars) - off for road reflections will use only sky.

 

[Mulero]

Those reflections are from statics, as I said (for cars)

No. With Car Reflections Off, reflection is still in real time and is updated 1 time every 20 seconds. You can do the test.

About Road Reflection ... I do not know that anymore.

 

[dadaboomda]

Incorrect.

With reflections turned off it is still used (I do not know how to say it) environment mapping???, only that it uses a very low refresh rate, an update every 30 seconds or more.

Environment turned OFF = there are fake reflections which the way it is done gives the impression BY DRIVING REALLY (not having fun watching the small details ) that the reflections are in high (by driving one hardly realizes the difference).

The trap is to use the level low: still consumes a lot of FPS, the quality remains correct, against the frequency of refreshing extremely bad: disastrous consequences unexpected --- >>> even with 60 constant FPS, the general impression fluidity is strongly impacted.

What to do: Powerful GPU = high setting. Medium end GPU = OFF setting (not low).

To remind: Reflections are one of the worst setting for performance.