Latest Roadmap Update - March 2018!!!

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Registered

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    Total bullshit m8.
    The uproar for Zandvoort started the day Kunos leaked their strategy!
    Giving them tracks would be all assumed LS...
    Then they fused the bomb.... Hell yeah, it didn’t work out, who would have thought...
     
  2. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    @hitm4k3r , what part of my post is factually incorrect? Let's examine the true facts, and that is what code or content is actually in our hands right now.

    Version 1108 update 2 was released on Feb 1st 2017, which was still DX9. DX11 and VR beta was released in a 1108 update on May 1st. At that point, that was good progress. DX11 isn't a feature; its just an API, a technology layer. It enabled VR (could have been done on DX9 like Sector3, elected not to, that was one heck of a technical feat) but was initially mainly a technology 'port' and subsequently it has enabled a better lighting model (which is a feature) and better rain/wipers (also a feature) and a partially revised and limited HUD. But we've lost all add-ins that wrote to the screen. 1109 was released on Dec 21st 2017; frankly its been mostly unplayable at settings that would allow them to show off their new features on my hardware. They updated most of the content to be DX11-compatible, at least.

    We've heard about the UI and competition infrastructure for over 18 months, from the very first posts S397 did. Aside from use of some for WFG and some hotlap competitions recently, we've seen exactly zero of this in our hands. I'm also not aware of any significant physics/core sim changes; and a lot of the older content is still on older tire models.

    For content, you are seriously suggesting that a modder who spent 6 years on one car model, is going to change the trajectory of content creation? There are certainly some mods that have changed the landscape on prior rF versions, like F1 '79 did, but that was a full car pack (in historic and league editions, eventually) and a full historic track pack. That's not what we're getting here. When ISI released the oval stock cars content, they knew they needed tracks to make it viable. And so they elected to work with modders and created the 3PA program which added 7 oval tracks in relatively short order. We've not seen that same intensity here. I'm not seeing a fully fleshed out content team or approach like they have at Sector3 or SMS, and I was expecting to see that by now plus some impact from it. I'm seeing lots of announcements to 'get excited about' but it's 6 months since the GT3 pack. But some of the content completion and quality has been a bit patchy and taken too long to fix.

    Yes, I'm getting impatient, and I want to see some results. If you feel that is unreasonable, that's fine, but it's honestly how I feel.
     
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  3. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Same could be said about most tracks to be honest...
     
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  4. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    DX11 is not a feature and I never said that, but the transition to it was basicly rewriting the graphics engine. If you think that rewriting a graphics engine and optimizing it should be done faster then so be it - it is a huge undertaking, simple as that. The question is if you want to have a new update that works or if you are pleased to get something hacked together screwing the experience for alot of people.The problem with all this transition to DX11 and the new UI is that people had completely unrealistic expectations, on how fast things should evolve and even S397 underestimated it. With the statements in the roadmaps and the interviews it should be pretty clear where the train is heading. But you being impatient or me being more patient won't change a single thing. If a bug gets found during beta testing, it needs to get fixed, especialy if it is a showstopper.

    For the content side of things, I am just glad that I get a great car where I know that it'll be of good quality that fits other cars in the game instead of questioning the priorities of the devs in the same paragraph. Again, expecting big packs ala 1979 is completely unrealstic at this point and you are most likely on the wrong adress if you expect this. The days of rF1 and masses of mods are long gone.
     
  5. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    And this brings back to the start, rF2 can't hope to survive only with few cars from each era and class or non existent modding (most are ports and not from original authors) but needs something which could be the base for something bigger, give people some kind of complete package, focus on something and people will start racing it again (I mean great numbers again), then they will start to love it even more, newcomers will arrive due the praises of finally happy old loyal users and modders will found a user base for their works...and they will be back in glory!!!
     
  6. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    You nailed the tone of my post lol
     
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  8. elbo

    elbo Registered

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    OK, so not Q1...fingers crossed that we get a significant update before the end of Q2...
     
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  9. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    The March 761 might end up being the greatest car in simracing history. Like I said, I've raced the F1 '79 mod on rF1 for 3 seasons, and we had a great time with it. [The way we ran it, we used the true historical performance for each race and had effectively 3 'classes' - the aliens got the slowest cars, mid-packers like me the middle speed, and noobs the fastest, via an assignment process based on league driver statistics over several years]. But frankly, this mirrors the ISI approach of one-car/class-per-era which hasn't worked too well so far. And we've seen the same issue in iRacing; only 30 people race the Lotus 49 per week in official open arrive-and-drive races, maybe 100 the Lotus 79, and 20-30 the GTP/GTO sportscars. That's league-level participation stats, on 50,000 members. The issue is that these historical races, the attraction is having that variety and trying to get good laptimes from 'lesser' cars or running the particular brand (Lotus/Ferrari/Copersucar) you love. You can see the same in AMS; each era of car they have V10-V8-V12, 70s, 60s etc. are nice cars and all, but with only a single model, people won't race them. Same on PC2 and AC. Historical racing is a wonderful thing, but it only works with period-complete options (cars+tracks). iRacing also have a problem because they won't build historical tracks because they laser-scan everything, and no AI for offline. That isn't a constraint here, but you'll have to tell me which 1976 track S397 have that I can race the March on, because I'm not aware of one. In many ways this era is a good one to pick because there were lots of garagiste designs using DFV/Hewland combos and simpler aerodynamics, but the cars looked very different from each other. Is this the plan here? If not, why not?

    Cloud Sport and Road to Vegas/F-E developed a car and many tracks in about a year [and they had several hiccups]. I assumed S397 were going to take this in-house, and we were going to see something similar as regards regular race series competitions etc. and maybe a big year end event. Right now we have one car and one track, and I haven't seen any further commitments. Is there a plan here?

    When you've got a limited market, and limited resources, if you're going to do something, you have to focus on it. It's why ISI pretty much failed; great diversity, no focus. S397 have plenty of evidence that taking the same approach won't revive the title....
     
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  10. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    That's not entirely true. The reason why people spend more time racing online is because of the infrastructure. This applies for iRacing, wich has basicly no series at all, I think even less GT3 cars than rF2 and yet people keep on racing there. AC is raced more to due to the simple fact that it is the more popoular game and that the pickup racing works better due to the better server browser. Hell, even the multiplayer of SRW was more actice due to a simple ranking system.
     
  11. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    I don't see the difference to realistic modeled cars (vs tracks) . If ISI or S397 always pointed out that their simulated car models are based on and verified with real data and therefore are realistic. S397 releases GT3 pack and later telling us they made up the physics without any real data by themselves (only using some simple and unverified data anyone can google). What would have been the reaction?

    Interestingly, without telling us, probably nobody would have found out that these models have nothing in common with reality - how big is the likelihood that you drive a GT3 in real life?
    So, Sony's Playstation Gran Turismo strategie - release a totally unrealistic simulation but telling the world it is the most realistic simulation - probably isn't that stupid. Even more, people feeling good they drive so well.

    I for one will always vote for realistic simulation, even if I have almost zero chance to find out that the simulation is not realistic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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  12. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    I wonder what a modder like Mcnolo or any that 3pa could do . How much fast or optimized a track could be done using laserscanned data (dont know if its true, im guessing)
     
  13. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    McNolo and most modders don't build tracks from scratch, so I'd say it would take at least as long. Not sure what you mean by fast. Laser scanned tracks need to be reduced in density to get them to run in the game at all, with full laser scanned precision as in rF Pro no home PC would be able to run them at playable FPS. What helps with laser scanning is that once you purchase the data from point cloud, you already have the geometry mostly done (+trackside objects too depending on what type of scan it was).
    I agree laser scanning is best. However if we can get a free track like Botniaring with 1 centimeter precision, I think that's terrific as well and big progress from those first rF2 tracks like Sepang, which were far off reality.
     
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  14. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    I mean modding in less time than a regular track, but you already answer in the first part. But it seems much less work for what you are saying, taking in consideration i do not know the process to make a track. Thanks
     
  15. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    The reason why the classic cars have very low participation in iracing compared to the gt3,skip barber,mx5 etc is because they are hard to drive,iracing is all about pick up and play,’most people don’t want to spend all week honing their skills and setup,they just want to jump in and crash at turn 1,rinse repeat.

    The classic cars have way better quality racing than the easier cars to drive,you know you can trust the people who race with you in the classics

    I ran the skippy when I first joined them moved directly to the lotus 79 and stayed there until I got frustrated with iracing tyre model,we only raced on sat and Sunday,we practiced all week,we had too,to be competitive just at mid field 2nd split.

    I personally enjoyed that more than racing 2-4x - day in the skippy,Formula Renault,or gt3,those cars are a lot easier to get up to speed in,so people flock to them,in fact iracings biggest participated road series are slow single car series,I was just looking at the stats the other day.

    Cars that take people 3 days of dedicated practice to just be able to do a race distance cleanly,will always have lower participation than easy slower cars,where you can get upto speed a lot lot faster

    Yes the skippy and mx5 being free content helps greatly with participation,but there’s a lot of people who run nothing else than those two in leagues,even though they own all road content

    I didn’t pay any attention to the oval side because the physics and tyre model was so goofy people found that jacking the right front up and running 13 degrees of negative camber allowed them to lap the field by half way distance.loooooooool

    Anyway nearly 200 people run the lotus 79 in a season,that’s nearly as many as people who are playing rf2 in any given week if the stats are true for rf2.

    Cater to everyone,get the bases covered first,then as time goes by,check the stats and cater more to the masses,it makes sense from a revenue standpoint imho
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
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  16. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    most will be happy again when the optimisations & the ui is released, well they will be for a few weeks anyhow
     
  17. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    That's actually a fantastic idea!

    Have a car with TC and ABS and it'll always be more popular than something that doesn't.
     
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  18. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    I suggested some time ago to put even more focus on the 3PA program. They should make a meeting, list the tracks used by the main series around the world, make a list and some calls to see what is possible and what isn't. Whatever isn't possible to get officially for whatever reason get into a 3PA project. Call it, Road Murica, Long Bitch, Barbercue Park, Kangaroo Streets, Beauty Spa, whatever, just get them in game with standard quality, performance and bug free.
     
  19. KittX

    KittX Registered

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    Wollow Sprongs :p
     
  20. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    Sorry, but without laser scanned data it is not possible to get 1 centimeter precision. Even with laser scanned data it is very difficult to get that precision.

    Look at the meshes from older ISI tracks. They were all built of 4 regular quad primitives along the track width. So one quad was something like 2 meter x 2 meter. Newer tracks were built with 8 regular quads along the track width. Having 1 meter x 1 meter quads it is not possible to get irregularities in track details. (You can add mathematically some artificial details, which are of course totally made up)

    Now look at laser scanned meshes (for example Kunos Nordschleife): Yes they are reduced data too, but are built up with irregular meshes. When details are needed the polygons are 10cm x 10cm. No artificial details but real details that were at least correct in one point of time.

    I once was a co-driver in a Porsche 911 GT3 RS around Nordschleife (locked and therefor free track and a professional racing driver). I was impressed how many details I could feel. Lost grip and got grip again many times even within one corner. You will never get this realistic feeling with big regular meshes and added some artificial mathematically details. What you get will simply be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
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