Latest Roadmap Update - July 2021

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Definitely graphics is truly respectable now, I think it would always keep on having space to improve, and I guess there might be people dedicated to graphics side maybe ? I haven't played rF2 for few weeks, and I was very impressed where it got.

    1. Clouds are clearly more alive, more detail. Not HDRi real sky or volumetric madness, but I think it is nice and nicer.
    2. I like what was done with rain fall, it looks a bit less sharp, and IMO it is more realistic than strangely well defined dense rain fall. Looks like S397 is winning on looks and on performance by doing this. SSR is awesome, I am glad that nw my goodwood mod has road reflections full, without doing anything (just have to fix UV scaling somehow lol). Rain is good looking.
    3. I am not certain, but are now shadows gone in overcast weather ? It seemed so from runs I did today, and in my mind this is massive improvement.
    4. Godrays beautiful and natural and goes well with autoexposure, IMO very well adjusted.

    This graphics engine can become truly sexy.
     
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  2. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    Agree graphics can be very very good, "realistic".

    The graphics team has been doing an excellent job for 1 year in particular.

    But for me updating the clouds is not a success.

    Before they were very slightly pixelated but it was not visible while driving.
    Now they are all smooth, and look less detailed to me, which is a real problem.

    Then, we do not have the slightest impression of volume.

    Finally there is a problem that has never been reported :
    Light clouds now corresponds to partially cloudy, partially cloudy corresponds to mostly cloudy, mostly cloudy corresponds to overcast (to schematize).

    Really the cloud update is a missed opportunity. And yes there is a kind of ambient occlusion which attenuates more or less strongly the shadows according to the clouds.
     
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  3. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Maybe it is so. I am not exactly sure about clouds themselves, but the way whole sky is detailed I find it better. When you focus on them, they do seem just a little bit flat while driving, but I suppose it can not be different unless it is totally fake sky overlay not actually interacting with the scene, or if it is crazy complex 3D detailed volumetric clouds with all the shadows and specular effects physically true in the scene.

    As much as I have played today I was happy with skies, this was more outstanding one in my mind. It is good to me.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    Must ... resist ... posting ... roadmap ...

    Too late.

    At first glance, the roadmap looks informative. On deeper thinking, it shows the scale of the problem confronting S397, and in particular, its relationship with its new owners and therefore what it sets as priorities given very limited resources. And its only getting worse.

    Consider now: there are two conflicting development models now in play. Those at S397 have been used to a continual development, no direct timeline or commitment to deliver content or features, slow grind that any and all priorities could be valid. By contrast, all the new MSG announcements are tightly date-constricted, specific content and features linked, and have to be done to HIT THE DATE. MSG is a publicly traded company and have published these titles and the timelines to Wall St and investors; its not a private company and do-what-you-like to stop the natives (us players) getting restless. There's profits, costs and revenues now. The devs - content or code - are now having to contribute to both development models and ethos. Yeah, yeah, its a different team doing the NASCAR NXT game; and sorry, but I call BS. There's not just those specific titles either; their parent has also committed them to run certain esports events as well. Such as another LM 24 Virtual, and also if they can (hint, hint), an IndyCar esports event/series this year. Both of those will use rF2. Now if LM Virtual is anything like the scale of event from last year (HUGE), then a lot of work has to go in to prep for that.

    Which brings us to the roadmap, which I believe to be quite misleading. There's hints as to why. We've know for a long while that broadcast overlays for the streamers and esports events has gotten priority over lots of other things, given the absolutely miniscule number of users this positively impacts. For a new LM Virtual, there will be liveries at the very least; and I'll bet there's some thought to running some part of this as a rain event, which is why SSR is being done. And also more work on driver swaps online (since this failed several times last year, and I suspect on-going issues being reported by the bigger leagues/esports streamers now. This all points to work being done to support esports pretty much to the exclusion of all else. Hence no AI, no physics (cars already exist etc.), not much on the UI or CS either. In fact, the biggest problem with the roadmap is how obvious it is that the pace of development of the UI and especially the CS within it, is at a glacial pace. What they have now is sufficient with the couple of esports events (Challenge series etc.) require, and the truly big one-off events or series won't use that anyway. Let's see what they actually deliver in the next month on the CS historical results UI, but my bet is it will be utterly underwhelming.

    As for the new car and any new tracks, they will likely be done to support said esports, or maybe its a holdover. My main bet would be for the BMW M4 GT3, replacing the M6, but that won't get used for the big events/MSG related esports stuff. Might be an IndyCar. Unlikely to be an LMH, since the obvious one would be a Toyota, but there's no sense in giving them their own class for the Virtual. Actually, given the feedback from Michelin on last years race, I'd have hoped to see tires they could triple stint (not wear out) but be changed solely for temperature (move to softs at night).

    I'm sorry, but I need to see much more commitment to fixing the UI (still massive fps drops) and especially rapid improvement in the CS system. This roadmap gives us neither. And its because of priorities at MSG.
     
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  5. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Not strange at all, when everything lines up. Still some tweeking to do.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Binny

    Binny Registered

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    @Paul Jeffrey Even if you decide to let us in on what your future plans are and trying to implement as someone has mentioned. Don't forget just to let us know if anything has put this on delay, I'm sure the majority of readers and users would accept that and understand rather than not hearing anything. Enjoyed hearing your reply on this thread.
     
  7. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Tbh, this Roadmap and the comment from Paul are a bit of a head scratcher for me. If the team is that small then why in gods name is the focus put on ... helmets? The most requested feature easily. Aren't there more severe issues that need attention? I mean, if you played iRacing it's pretty clear where the idea is coming from, but I wonder how stuff like that moves up the priority list.

    The only little glimpse of positive vibes that I got from this roadmap is the updated Safety car. I just hope that it is a sign for an update to the AI logic and rules system so that we can finaly put it to use again. Otherwise it's another waste of ressources. I am not saying that the content updates aren't great btw, but in terms of core development this roadmap is a bit wierd. o_O
     
  8. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    AH AH AH
    Nothing more true :D o_O :mad:
     
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  9. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Helmets are painted by artists. Artists don't necessarily code. So if you have painters in-between projects, put them to use. Even helmets. Now having team members who can investigate and address core issues with the sim, they are probably few & far between.
     
  10. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I am not sure why so much fuss about Helmets, I don't care about them, they are low importance, and it probably took less than half a day for an artist to do. What it did the most was serving as a filler peace for a roadmap. Some of the great things that has been done for rF2 hasn't got as much presentation and attention as that.

    Also I wish helmets were just white or some neutral colors as defaults, that way no chance they would not match some cars.
     
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  11. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    One thing I'd like to see mentioned is if they are going to revise the tire physics of slick tires on some of their cars. That and once and for all adding dynamic track temperatures and possibly rain physics developments - Iracing is stepping up their game too.
     
  12. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

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    I guess you didn't get the joke... a shame, it was a good one :D

    On a less funny note... without speaking about graphic per say... seems like the game could use a low level API like directx12 or vulkan... that's a bummer to be limited by the 'CPU usage' in so many situation... Just ask those proud rtx3080 owner with their overpriced toys, often coupled VR gears... what they think about that.

    Hope that's something that is on the backlog that is kept hidden from us.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
  13. r00b Driver

    r00b Driver Registered

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    I completely understand the argument of S397 being a small team, and resources have to managed to what is perceived to be the most important aspects of the sim that need improving. I understand that designers/modellers are not coders (I'm a programmer myself).

    However, we were told that with the acquisition of S397 by MSG that they could 'tap into the resources' from MSG.

    So, is that happening?
     
  14. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    That's not really my point and I am not saying that artists should dive deep into the code. I am well aware of how that works. The question is if I can afford to pay an artist to design a new helmet and create new skins for them when there is a big backlog of tracks and cars that haven't recieved long needed visual updates. It's allways about the fact that it opens a new can of worms and it actually makes me wonder why there would be something like an "in-between-projects" in the current state the product is in. I am not telling S397 that they should fire their artists btw, but if I am short on man/girl-power in a very important area I have to think about acquiring the staff needed, especialy when the complaints about certain parts of the sim get more and more frequent. Ofcourse there can be issues finding the stuff as coders aren't that easy to come by as 2D/3D artists, but just looking at people like Ilja who has a wide knowldege of working with code and shaders it's a big surprise that this kind of talent isn't snatchted up in a blink of an eye. I think he might be working for Reiza now, but it once again shows that opportunities get missed.
     
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  15. ThomasJohansen

    ThomasJohansen Registered

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    These monthly roadmaps, showing the progress and some info on behind the scene, just makes me certain that this sim is well worth all the euros I throw after dlc's. Keep up the good work.
     
  16. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    It's good to see there's a progress, but again it's mostly in completely different areas than what people ask for here in forums. I would gladly resume paying for DLC if SOME plans/roadmap are addressed/communicated regarding long standing issues with AI , physics issues and enhancements like hybrid engine support, H pattern gearbox damage and proper drivetrain simulation. I think they are implemented in AC and RaceRoom which also didn't have big dev team. But at least Raceroom has a physics dev (Alex) that keeps working on physics engine and issues are eventually resolved (or improved like FFB).

    If someone from S397 actually reads forums then i.e. why despite many efforts there's been no reply to this thread:
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....ted-behavior-in-rf2.69742/page-6#post-1075254

    Why it's not even acknowledged? This seems like rather quick fix and such that could save someone's fingers from braking.

    It's obvious some tasks require a lot of work, but I haven't seen any plans in monthly roadmaps, let alone here in forums - only in some interview with Marcel few years ago claiming they are on TODO list. I get there were different priorities like UI, graphics, but I don't think UI/graphics dev would be moved to physics engine development anyway.

    I also have strong feeling that S397 priorities are not what majority of current players want, but rather what S397 thinks will bring most income. But I think rF2 is losing players because of long standing issues never get addressed.
     
  17. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    Can we hope for hillclimb and a new rally car ?
    If only a pro dev similar to Kartsim could release 10 hillclimb tracks and a new rally car...
    mt_washington_iracing-4.jpg

    The Irony is the best ONLINE game has now the best offline features (AI settings, tracks, cars, night...and soon rain)...
    4_roster_attributes.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
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  18. RNeves

    RNeves Registered

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    Here are some ideas that would solve some of the small communication problems that S397 has.

    On the other hand, RF2 has come a long way since S397 took control of it!

    Can't wait to see the competition system going at full implementation state. But I'm also looking forward for some physics upgrades (transmission model, rain driving improvements, aero improvements and hybrid systems implementation).

    Keep up the good work
     
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  19. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Had to quote myself. The thing I was commenting on was probably some earlier iteration of SSR. I have played rF2 today a lot, and dominantly in wet conditions. It was superb, no weird artifacts of objects above reflecting ahead, no objects popping up. There only was some flickering, and few not very noticeable artificial reflections, but in general it was great and I have never enjoyed driving rF2 on wet so much before, it is almost even physics feels better when visually everything is nicer and more immersive. It seems performance is also better.

    I went to Azure and Nordschleife. Azure is superb how it is dry and not raining in tunnel now, road is visually very nice, although reflection patterns looks a bit low res or off scale from higher camera angles, but from driver eyes height angle looks great. It looks epic in track with that much objects, and all of them being reflected. I had an issue when road reflections didn't appear with ultra SSR setting, but lower settings are fine.

    And then the Nordschleife just blew me away. I had session with sequence: heavy rain > overcast > sunny > overcast > full sun. And for the first time rF2 is not just nice, but absolutely stunning to me. I probably gained a pound of dopamine as I drove Ford GT40 MK1 for six laps there. Everything works together so fine. SSR give proper wet tarmac visuals matching environment, sky and lighting. Overcast light doesn't cast shadows anymore just as it has to be and it looks so right. Then overcast weather changed into sunny and I came so hard, that I crashed my GT40. Shadows slowly appeared, colors got more saturated and more vibrant. World got brighter. Tarmac shading changed a bit as sky and lighting changed, reflections got better, blue and white tones from sky appeared blended in tarmac reflections. And to me skies are a lot more immersive and realistic, I have no issues about them, beautiful to me. Everything looked so good and real all the time, and god rays, autoexposure... It is wonderful, everything plays important role. The car I drove also gains baked dashboard reflection on windshield, has dirt on windshield and gets shadows cast on windshield, and those things up immersion and realism even more, even if they work in reverse (perhaps not that difficult fix?). I am going to repeat this Nords session so much with many cars ! Perhaps the only suspicious thing would be very bright tarmac in full sun, but thats nit-picking, it is not an issue comparing how realistic whole picture looks in general and in ALL LIGHTING, not only that, but transitions are beautiful and smooth at least when not unrealistically accelerated.

    Thank you, S397. Incredible job, I am very happy seeing it all coming together nicely, the diamond is shaping up.

    You guys should not stop working on this engine, and then name it "REAL ENGINE".
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
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  20. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Better work more on physics engine and call it "Real engine" too :D:D. But its nice the gfx.
     

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