Latest Roadmap Update - August 2017

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Marcel Offermans, Aug 19, 2017.

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  1. Mulero

    Mulero Registered

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    I would not take any advantage of seeing a telemetry, tested Motec years ago and I found it very complicated. But I suppose someone expert would be able to get important conclusions.
    Data that the game offers are more than enough to learn many things and as well says there are also external tools that are of great help.

    For me there would be no problem in sharing telemetry right now since my online game is summed up in a very busy race from time to time, but if I were running a championship I would not like anything that anyone could access it. Nor do I think that most pilots in major leagues like the idea very much, they are playing important things, spending a lot of time preparing the races and moving in very small margins. A few tenths make a big difference ....
     
  2. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    I'm only interested in those running rF2. Went on tonight at primetime US, and did a check. There were 424 servers listed. Of those, about half were locked. Of the 424 servers, a mere 38 were populated (and many with only 1 or 2 people). Of the 38 populated, 18 were locked. This of course included the WFG servers, of which there were 7, with 5 populated with a grand total of 10 players. And of those populated, only 13 were running 'stock' tracks.
    It's pretty clear to me that they lack any sort of organization, especially for those who may want to do pickup racing and not as part of a league. The community is way too fragmented. Even iRacing has this problem, but its far worse here.
    AMS had 162 servers. of those, 22 were populated.11 of those were locked, and many were running mods not stock content.
    AC has problems with both multiple 'car packs'/DLC and then also mods. There were 1565 servers, of which 110 were populated. Of the 1565, I had content to enter only 225 of them, and of those, only 172 were unlocked.
    I also checked out F1 2016. That had, count them, 5 multiplayer sessions and most of those were nonsense.
    So, no, I don't think there are 10,000 servers hosted across those games, not even close.
    Online fragmentation is a major problem for all sims, but it hits RF2 more than most.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  3. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Even leagues suffer with that, you have plenty running at the same time with low car count instead of join the same server.
    One of the reasons I plan to abandon league administration at the end of this year. Better just try to get everyone to race somewhere else.
     
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  4. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    You left out the 266 rF1 and 114 pCARS servers running. :)

    Yup, looks like I was optimistic. 1565 + 424 + 266 + 162 + 114 = 2369 servers, so we're still talking about thousands of people running servers which answers the question you asked, "How many people do that?", as if no one has any interest in doing so. That question is very different from online fragmentation which always boils down to people wanting to race with content they like at the time of their choosing... lots of content = lots of choices, but few players of the specific content you're interested in at the time you want to be available.

    Don't forget the peak sim hours are European evening time, not North American prime time. North America is not the prime market and never has been.

    All in all, I think you have a very iRacing-centric view of how rF2 should run and what the online numbers should look like, which is not necessarily what the majority of rF2 customers are looking for... it could be, but if it were, then why wouldn't they merely join iRacing?
     
  5. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    The problem with rFactor 2 online racing has never been multiplayer system the problem has been game by it self and especially performance of gMotor just face it. :eek:
    Lets just hope that standalone DX11 with new UI is going to make the trick. ;)
     
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  6. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    You can do the trick with new content...wait for the GT3 pack and arrange an open server (better if a S397 official one) with GT3 cars and well know track (Silverstone,spa, etc) and it will be full everyday...
     
  7. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

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    It is their problem. I don't really care if someone can see some little bits of my data. Just like I don't really care if someone is off the pace. I only suggested speed trace because it is easy to create and can be shared and collected from replays or shown even in real time when on server. Things like pedal inputs suffer from being laggy and spiky because of inadequate packet sending rate. And I don't think sharing everything is a good idea anyways. But sharing little bit in easy way would just be efficient to have it in the ui available directly.

    Personally I'd want to have speed and longnitudianl and lateral gs for myself. Those allow me to do quick analysis to get my gear changes correct and give me quick and easy clues to where I am slow. And if we have this kind of telemetry view in the ui then it just makes sense to make it available online as well. Even if it just shows speed traces around the track. Then allow compare laps so it shows both plots plus a comparison plot. Kinda simple thing. It is kinda overkill to use motec for something simple like this anyways imho. But motec is still there available for everyone.

    With motec we could just as well argue whether it is realistic for something like a nsx or panoz roadster to have similar telemetry output data as an f1 car. In the end realism here is not about tech. Telemetry realism is all about simulating how much money is being spent.

    In the end I think simple ui telemetry would be relatively meaningless feature. Personally I'd probably sometimes use it, most of the time not. In reality I don't think many people would use it. Plus I think for servers it makes sense to have option to turn it off - just because options are good to have.
     
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  8. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    The opponent filter window is nothing but outrageous, sometimes a certain car is shown as 'GT' or 'Summer Trophy', replace it with any any generic subclass name which will be impossible to figure out what car is related to.

    Maybe all cars could be released with a tinny JPG thumbnail to be seen in this screen as AMS car choice screen.
     
  9. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Yeah that screen definitely needs a visual clue as to what the Selection is especially if S397 won't/can't go down the route of over-hauling the whole naming process (VEH file changes), that would be helpful where some modders unfortunately name their Car something obscure for sure.
     
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  10. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

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    397 could just the msicon files for car previews. For car class just pick the first skin msicon preview from that car and then for each skin use their own msicon files. To me it sounds pretty easy thing to do. Only issue is that if some car class contains massively different cars then single msicon file won't give the right impression... so in those cases show several msicons. Doesn't sound a difficult problem. Doesn't require any changes to mods either.
     
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  11. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    It's important that S397 gives us a sense of what type of product/service they want to build. That will then guide what they put in the Roadmap, which is the topic of this thread.

    A Roadmap isn't simply a list of those areas that the devs have decided they want to "fix" in the current rF2 product. That might be fine if the product was a runaway success and growing, despite the "fixes". But it is my contention, that rF2 as a product/platform was dying. The fact that AC has 3x the number of servers running is testament to that. The basic vehicle simulation is pretty good as a technology base. But aside from that, it hasn't reached its potential.

    In my opinion, and others are free to disagree, the concentration on modding is at the root of the issues. The successful franchises don't rely on modders to carry all the load for content creation. So, the Roadmap is beginning to tell us that, whilst modding is still a part of what they will do and isn't going away, folks have what they already have, they are going to license more content and build it as either DLC or free. This is an important change. But it's only part of the story. It's not just a way to fund on-going development of the sim, though it's necessary for that to happen.

    The big missing piece in the current Roadmap is a description of how they see things happening in online competition. I have made a case that says, the current online base is far too fragmented and relies on individuals to build all the hosted races, leagues etc. etc. In fact, I go further; the two basic models of having leagues and pickup-style racing, to which we could add organized competitions I suppose like WFG, Formula E etc., needs thought on what that is, what capabilities are needed, and who is expected to build it. In WFG, S397 decided to build all their own infrastructure to host the competition. In all other cases, its up to either partners to build it (companies set up specifically for the esports world) or for individual leagues/services and the community to build them [and I'd say, this has always been a possibility but it just hasn't happened, other than race2Play and Simraceway, which both folded]. Right now, the biggest issue rF2 has is online racing; as an offline racer, its fine (though I'm sure some more could be done for time trials etc. which is not direct head-to-head competition also, and other things). So in my mind, the leader in the online space is iRacing and therefore you want to take a look at what they've built and whether it meets the needs of the vision for the product/service S397 wants to offer.

    rF2 was lacking in some technologies compared to sim competitors; they are adding DX11, VR etc. to close those gaps. Adding content is another pillar. [Note, both those apply for offline as well as online]. But the main area we've heard not much about in the Roadmap, other than some techy stuff in this edition that I think hardly anyone saw the point of putting in because there's no context to it (ok, you've got a hammer; what do you want to do with it? what do you intend to build?), is what their vision is for online racing. Many paths they could go in with that, they don't have to copy iRacing. But let's be clear, iRacing are lightyears ahead of anyone else with that so its only natural to look at what they've done. Not everything iRacing have done is working; they are vulnerable in many areas. In some cases the answer will be to copy what works; in others, its innovate with something new/different. And I've not heard what that is, as of yet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
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  12. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    You shouldn't overanalyze things, especialy not stuff that has been answered or explained many times allready. I share some of your concerns and how stuff could be improved to make the game more interesting for both online and offline players, but it's been said pretty often allready that they are looking at trying to implement an iRacing style system with competitions (WFG is a small glimpse I guess) and they will try to implement features to support MP races for people with different DLCs, so that people without a certain DLC can still join races using that full DLC. How much comes out of it and when this will be all in good shape is another question. But all in all I have been impressed by how well the competition went despite a small delay, just looking back at the Cloud Sport attempt, so this should give you an idea of what they are planning and that it actually works. And the very techy sounding paragraph isn't out of place or anything but shows pretty well they have a very clear goal and an infrastructure to make this happen. So all in all, they aren't developing behind a rock or in their dark cave.

    Tbh, the most important thing for S397 right now is to stabalize this product and polish it. After that expand it with interesting content, connected with new and interesting features that make sense in the grand scheme of things, while still reaching out to their creative community and keep them involved. I've been sucked into ArmA 3 recently and I really got to say that they just nailed about every aspect of those that I just mentioned. And there is no reason why such a thing shouldn't work in sim arcing. Make a "bootcamp" for newbies - it has been done in GTR2 so why don't we have such a thing? That should be clearly something where the new UI can and should be expanded - accessibility has been one of the biggest complaints about rF2. Why aren't new build notes, dev blogs, roadmaps, content news and changelogs accesible via the launcher or ingame? There is so much stuff where I see glimpses of what could be and is allready possible, but it's just not polished or used to it's full potential. So all in all, I am pretty excited to see how this thing will evolve. It's better than to allways whine that this game has been dying. iRacing as we know it now built their system that they have now on NR2003. There is no reason why rF2 could not just be the next iRacing in 5 years or more. And that's actually the beauty of evolving products :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  13. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....l-come-crawling-back.36317/page-3#post-598630
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....l-come-crawling-back.36317/page-3#post-598639

    So once again, I ask you, if the people who play AC, rF2, AMS, R3E, & pCARS online or offline could just join iRacing, why are they not already there?

    You only started posting here again in May after a 2 year hiatus. Perhaps you've not looked at the previous roadmaps, such as the one from February which said:

    Competition Update
    Development of the competition infrastructure is going well and is on track to be released this summer. Drivers and teams will be able to record their stats, achievements and results, which then can be accessed through any device and shared with friends. Competitions will feature selected existing content and new content. Details will be announced in the coming months. Our main focus is to create feature rich mechanics that provide a challenge for new drivers and seasoned sim racing veterans alike.

    Radio Communication
    Most racing series use radio communication to let drivers talk to their team and pit crew. Some series also have race control broadcasting instructions. For example, oval racing series such as Stock Car typically also have spotters that keep an eye on what’s happening to keep you out of trouble.

    We are working on expanding our current system, which is centered on the spotter’s role, into a system that allows different people to talk to you on the radio. In addition, we intend to make the communication more interactive by giving you the ability to ask for information or instructions​

    So relax for now and wait for the details to be announced when the time is appropriate. Right now we have had a good peek at the competition infrastructure (did you participate in WFG?). That infrastructure involves all the server dispatching & monitoring covered in the August roadmap, joining specific competitions via a web browser, and a broadcast overlay. The stats, achievements, and results are still somewhat forthcoming. The infrastructure is something S397 can sell to other companies like McLaren, not just the simracing community. This kind of infrastructure for competitions are currently offered by only R3E and iRacing, though it sounds like pCARS 2 will be fighting to enter the arena, too.
     
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  14. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    I just hope to see a sort of better parallel development...one for content and one for features and game polishing, fortunately I can say this is going to happen, every devs roadmap confirm this...so all good!
    The only thing I still don't see is a polished product like AMS (I know, I know, I am boring...), I don't think it is the peak of simracing but for sure it is a sort of solid base rF2 should try to reach or be on par (I am not talking about physics, but about features or the little things made it a little jem) before evolving on something more complex ("like iRacing"). Hope this will happen soon...
     
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  15. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    I think people need to understand that rf2 is flawed in many many ways,and there's no point in jumping the gun,unloading content and online structures until these fundamental flaws are fixed,and of the day s397 have shown us they acknowledge this,and they know you have to have a solid base to build on,not just for us users,but for the devs too,streamlining the backend stuff will make their lives easier,which will inturn make giving us the goodies easier.
    Many people don't just not play rf2 because of the lack of cohesive content,they don't play it because it's quite a dated and painful experience to start with,this is what they are trying to put right,they have to get the new user experience as painless as possible,once that's done they can add the glitter and sparkles (content and features).

    S397 have only been here a year so it's still very early days,and I'm sure we have only heard a very small percentage of what their vision is for this product,which I like,best not to say this or that and not be able to deliver it,that's where iracing have fell short,yet they too have started to only announce stuff when they know they can deliver it.

    I'm on holiday till sat,and I'm going cold turkey from not blasting around zandvoort in the FR3.0,so forgive me if my opinions sound very fanboyish
     
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  16. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    You make a good point don't worry :) I also see that S397 are working towards a more polished product, they've said that themselves in the past and it's reassuring to see these backbone changes going in that could (I say could as I don't fully understand all the jargon!) help streamline their working environment in the future. There sure is a lot of areas they need to tweak to make better, how much of the RF2 Code they're willing to dive into and tweak though is up to them and I'm sure some people will be left disappointed that their little area won't be "fixed". All we can do is be patient - and I know how hard that is for some people :p - the Road is a long one remember, Rome wasn't "fixed" in a day ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
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  17. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    When rF2 will be fixed we will say "all the tracks bring to rF2" :p
     
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  18. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Reiza basically took rf1 and polished it,all of reizas products have been based on the exact same engines(rf1),so they have had a long time to work with those engines,s397 have basically taken on rf2 with no prior experience of the engine,so I for one expect some familiarisation time at the beginning.
    I want rf2 to reach its full potential,but I also realise that will take along time if done right.
     
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  19. gabrielof

    gabrielof Registered

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    And it's funny that the same guys that changed rF1 engine to bring those nice new features under the hood to AMS are from Studio 397/Luminis. You can find Marcel's talk on youtube.
     
  20. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Wow , cool stats (well not so cool for Sim racing) . How do you find all this info ? I'd like to have more detailed info before even entering a server .
     
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