Laser scanned tracks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CordellCahill, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. CordellCahill

    CordellCahill Registered

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    Well iRacing has to recoup their money invested into scanning those tracks somehow.
     
  2. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    Buying a bread daily is like supporting the iR market. Doesn't sound silly?

    AndrewMCP: great post.
     
  3. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Registered

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    I don't like iRacing because they are a strictly online community.
     
  4. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    You won't pay for quality tracks, because iR is online community?
    It's a meaning of your last posts in this thread.

    You denied rF2 as high quality simulation only just because you hate iR? Isn't it silly?
    I don't get you, pal.
     
  5. mianiak

    mianiak Registered

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    I think he is just voicing his opinion about an online 'only' game.

    This issue is easily resolved though, the people who want laser scanned tracks can go get the laser data and make it available to track makers.
    If your prepared to debate this topic, then you must be prepared to go do something about it. SO off you go now, go get some data. *makes shooing signal with hand*
     
  6. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Registered

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    Online Only = Greedy!
     
  7. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    @mianiak
    Your assumption is, that we want to have ONLY laser scanned tracks.... but where did you get that from? No one said anything like that.

    There is a difference between saying "we want them" and "it would be great to have them" :)
     
  8. CordellCahill

    CordellCahill Registered

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    @mianiak As I've stated before coming by the data is hard AND expensive. I've seen quotes of 50,000 euros for a track. This is way out of the reach for modders.
     
  9. xzess

    xzess Registered

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    Does anybdy think in microsoft Kinect to a "future" track scanner? I don't tink im only the one..... laser scanning would be possible to almost all people... see kinect hack videos...
     
  10. IMSA GTP

    IMSA GTP Registered

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    Nothing wrong with laser scanned tracks, but frankly it doesn't add much other then a new buzzword.

    Take for example the changes a track goes through as rubber is laid down. Or as the tire worms begin to multiply off line. As the track heats so do the tires. The air density drops. Humidity affects braking and downforce.

    Seasonal changes; Road America and Mid Ohio are only two of many tracks where the weather re-calibrates the surfaces.

    Rockingham NC has the most course asphalt found on earth, its like they sharpened the crusher-run filler to tire shredding perfection. Unlike the polished aggragate found on a few street courses like Long Beach or Detroit. What makes the latter interesting is the effects of rubber on the track. (Or in the eastern states the effects of morning dew).

    I doubt that simracing will reach the full effect of realism, but I think laser scanning is pretty low on the list of enhancements to improve the experience of realism.
     
  11. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    So he missed the topic, doesn't he?
    Can you see any meaningful relation between 'online only' and 'laser scanning'

    It's not an argument against making a track at least with perfect geometry. Even if some issues are not simulated (I believe it will be in near future) it wouldn't assume track missing geometry out for a metres, resignation from features impossible to reproduce without LS etc.

    With further processing. Modder will pay only for using laser scanner


    And finally as Lesiu said, it doesn't mean that there will be no tracks done without LS technique. Probably there will be more releases of single track. Anyone will have a choice. Personally, I would like race on laser scanned Spa for, let's say, 10$ than current version of Spa by SBT which missed reality a lot
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2011
  12. Slimjim

    Slimjim Registered

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    if people think they have to go out and Laser scan every track.. they are crazy.. most tracks are scanned by the architects that build them..
    they have a 3D model of the track before it is even built.. not saying after the track is layed out, it is perfect, but very close..
    not sure why.. but i have noticed that all Need for Speed Shift tracks, are 98% exactly the same as the iR tracks.. now did NFS guys scan these.?
    i just think the scans are out there, and anyone that wants to buy a copy of the scan may do so at a price..

    but as time goes on, everybody knows the tracks get better and better each year.. so there will be a time when we have all the tracks in perfect scale..
     
  13. beatnik

    beatnik Registered

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    The main thing Laser Scanning brings to racers is accurate layouts and width. There are many rFactor tracks (mod tracks no ISI tracks) that are just so incorrect in width and length it saddens me, but yet those people back it up like it is 110% correct. Laser Scanning just gives modelers an extremely accurate basis on which to work.

    Unfortunately Laser Scanning does nothing for physics or else it would be the best technology available. So visual Laser Scanning is definitely the way to go, but since physics don't scan in it...there are definitely more options.
     
  14. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    @Slimjim, IMHO, they are not... yes, they are similar but not that close (and some are better, like Brands or Laguna Seca and some are way off, like Spa).
     
  15. xzess

    xzess Registered

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    Just put 2 or 3 of these at the back of a car make some laps to cover all track, combine it with gps data and voila an very acurate data to make a track i think best than laser, and very very affordable. I think too this is the way to developers to make accurate tracks at low cost.

    (This video is only one of the multiple tests made with kinect, but the "toy" brings very acurata 3d data to de computers, and some software out there can fit the 3d itself wihtout mecanical input reference, like this guy with the kinect in his hand, the software matches position i think)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XejNctt2Fcs
     
  16. xzess

    xzess Registered

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  17. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Registered

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    Why did my search of this at Microsoft.com bring up xbox?
     
  18. CordellCahill

    CordellCahill Registered

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    Cause it's a xbox toy. Any uses of it outside of the xbox world were created by the wonderful world of hackers.
     
  19. Jka

    Jka Member Staff Member

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    When comparing iR tracks to rF tracks, you must remember that each of them uses very different technology (and technique). All "Papyrus" based (also iRacing) track geometry is made with spinlines, rF uses polygons. IRacing gfx engine fills the gap between these spinlines with textures, which creates the illusion "driving on the track" in specific scene (which contains also "normal" 3d polygonical objects). You actually do not "drive" on polygons, but on coordinates (or grid) between spinlines. Iracing uses laser scanning only gathering accurate information for modelling, not the data itself for gfx engine. What is "revolutionary" in their scanning method, they found effective way to get rid of unnecessary data and keep only information which is needed for accurate modelling. Normally (if you can say, "normally"...) laser scanning produces huge amount of data, which is hard to handle and contains 99% unnecessary information. It takes huge amount of work to go through scanning result manually and find essential data.

    There is nothing mystic on this technology, they just figure out effencient way gather and sort out information from "point cloud". For example, all the bumps on the track is made with combination of bump maps (not the "bump map" in material, but table on physics code) and texturing, just like old nr2003 engine. Information where exactly the bump is on the track, is taken from scanned data. I have always believed (or have doubt) that iRacing uses "Sandbox 2.0" as their track creating tool. Maybe some nr2003 track makers remember Sandbox? ;) When iRacing released short video of WIP Spa, you could actually see spinlines here and there when texture edges "floods" through backround color.

    So, is laser scanned tracks automatically better than others? No, but scanned data helps to creating realistic tracks. Same result can be achieved without scanned data, but it's little bit harder, requires more "footwork" when researching information and takes little bit longer time.

    IRacing marketing department succeeded to tell customers that "Point Cloud" and "Laser Scanning" technology is key for "ultimate realistic racing experience", which is not the case. Ultimate racing experience contains much more than that. It's combination of all aspects of the sim like gfx-, physics- and audio engine, all coders and artists who are pushing limits beyond to give us all the best possible experience behind the wheel. This is something, which (imo) iRacing has failed during these years and I have strong faith for ISI guys, who are pushing hard to give us what we want.

    Oh, and hi all guys and gals! (my first post here...:eek:)
     
  20. mikeward

    mikeward Registered

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    if laser scanning is so vital this must mean that fantasy tracks will never work. If it all about how accurate it is to the real track , who really cares aslong as the races we have on the tracks are good.
     

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